New (to me) 93 Valeo Intermittent start Issue.

Hello All. Today is Memorial Day 2015 and should be taking delivery of my first Ferrari. It's a 1993 T Valeo. Vin number 95924. She's been to CA,TX, Toronto and now PA. She is on the truck at the time I am writing this. I drove the car two weeks again and agreed to purchase.
However last night after a final drive the owner called me to say that an intermittent starting problem had re-appeared. He had the same problem described a few other threads that seems to be an issue with the potentiometer. He had had this problem a few year back and had the uint adjusted and fixed it. However yesterday after a final drive it wouldn't start. After some wiggling of the gear shift, it started. However this morning during loading it wouldn't start and had to be pushed on the truck. Thinking this is the same problem again, are there any quick fixes to adjusting this on my own? Does anyone have any advice on how to adjust this on my own. Incredibly excited to get the car, but now very nervous about the starting issue. Please relay or PM with any quick fixes so I can fire up my dream car tonight and take her for a spin around the block.

Joined F-Chat a few months ago and everyone has provided great advice on my search for one of the 18 Valeo's in the US. Hoping it's not a serious issue.

Thanks
JZ

 

Hank where are You? What color is Your new joy? Coupe?

 

PM me your email address and I'll send you the Valeo workshop manual pages and information.
Cheers,
Greg

 

Greg & Jim,

The relay "switcheroo", may well be Jim's first approach. It obviously can't be a burnt fuse back in the Valeo ECU region, as the problem is intermittent. My money is on a blinkey relay.

Let's wait for the car's arrival first.

Cheers,

Hank

 

Hiya Howie,

Jim's new Valeo is a beautiful red Cab. Valeo equipped coupes were never officially delivered to NA, and only 43 coupes (1989) did get here.

An Fchat friend in Thailand (Pom) has a stunning Valeo coupe. Boy, would I love to have that little jem in my garage next to Rachel !!

Cheers,

Hank

 

Hello Brothers in Valeo.. my boys (3 sons) have named her "Mona" Fitting I think.
Tried with desperation to start her, but nothing. Wiggled the shift lever gently then violently.. nothing. Tomorrow I will try to jack her up to get at the Potentiometer..
Any advice.. Feeling much embarrassment that I purchased a Mondial t that doesn't run :

Help!!!!!

 

Does Mona turn over? What do you mean by "nothing"?

Hank

 

But you will have zero embarrassment when she does run. Looking forward to pictures.

 

Thanks guys. What I mean is I turn key and all light come on but starter does not engage. No clicking.. Nothing. Trying to start her in neutral with brake and hand brake on. I assume
This is correct. Let me know any advice.

 

I would start with a predetermined baseline. Put a volt meter on the battery to see that it has 12v or more. Look at the fuse box, find the starter and check condition of that fuse or swap it with another of same type.

Go from there.... Could be a loose ground connect or corroded wire as well. Not sure why shaking the gear stick and the potentiometer have to do with starting the car? Not sure if the Valeo has a neutral switch to prevent it from starting, does anyone know, my 3.2 does not.

Best and what a crappy way to start your Ferrari ownership experience but I'm sure you, folks on this forum, or a good shop referral will get Mona going! Good thing is all of this can be fixed !

Mike

 

Update: Got her started this morning and took her for a ride. It was glorious! Sunny morning and dropped the kids off at school. What an amazing car! It's everything everyone described here. Great handling, Strong acceleration and great transmission. I need to get better at the Valeo, but it will come.

Not sure what I did to make it start. I kept wiggling the shift lever and it decided to turn over. When i was done, I parked it and tried again and it wouldn't start. It sounding like the potentiometer as described in the threads here. Would a faulty relay be that random and intermittent?

Welcome any and all opinions..

Thanks again and glad I had my first ride

 

How do you start a Valeo? As Mike mentioned, if there is some type of neutral sensor for start it sounds like it could be the problem. Congrats on the t, the Valeo sounds like a lot of fun to drive.

Dave

 

Thanks Dave. Yes I think that is the issue. The Valeo unit doesn't know it's in neutral to start. Going to check relay and potentiometer.

 

I believe the potentiometer you are referring to is used to sense when to open the clutch as you shift and tells the Valeo computer what gear you are in.
It *may* also tell the computer when you are in neutral, but I'm no expert.
I would bring the car to a Ferrari specialist that has a SD-1 computer. That will tell you what is going on.

I would not replace the pot unless you have to. They are very expensive. I found one in the UK for 1/2 what it costs in the USA for a fellow Fchat member last year. That said, you may want to get one as a spare, they are rare parts and one they are gone, thats it. I think it was about $1600.

DavidJ

 

It occurs to me that there might be a micro switch attached to the shift linkage, in the console, that tells when you are in neutral.
The area inside the console around the shifter in my car was so full of crap that I had trouble shifting. Maybe you just need to clean out some flotsam.
Wouldn't that be nice.

DavidJ

 

David, do you have a diagram of how this gearbox is put together ?
Also, what is this "POT" that you refer to, I just know of the kind you could, I did not, inhale.

 

Hank, I believe all Valeos in NA were Red/Tan.

 

Forgot the Valeo system was written up using Hank's car back in 2012.

As referenced on Paul's site: http://alexachua.com/forza_2012.pdf


This info is directly from Dean Batchelor's book: "Illustrated Buyer's Guide: Ferrari"
Valeo is a French clutch manufacturer that produced a system with no clutch pedal but whose clutch was operated by an electro-mechanical actuator (ECM).
This Valeo system can engage and disengage the clutch in 0.02 seconds! Originated for the Lancia rally team, this clutch allowed the drivers to use one foot on the brake and the other on the gas at all times, and it contributed greatly to Lancia's back-to-back world rally championships. The ECM operated like a manual transmission:Lift off the gas, move the gear shift lever by hand, get back down on the gas, and the clutching was handled without footwork.
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I am pretty sure I saw one for sale in the U.S.that was blue. Within the last 2-3 years.

I want to say it had been celebrity owned, but not sure.

Regards,
Jerry

 

Jerry I think you are referring to this one as posted from another forum.
But I can't verify if whats stated is true.
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Update: I tried swapping out the relay in the left rear of the car to test it, but it wouldn't start. I got under the car and found the Potentiometer. I took the cover off to make sure nothing was obviously wrong. The unit had definitely been messed with before as the boot was a bit torn and the cover was hanging on with cable ties. It was a bit dirty so i clean it out with a few air blasts and put a few wrenches on the nuts to ensure nothing was loose. However i hesitated to turn anything too much as I have no idea what i was doing with the unit. I put it back together and still nothing.
Today I am sending the car to Scuderia Performante for a diagnostic (scuderia performante)

Both Tony and Anthony are Ferrari Master Tech's who just left Algar Ferrari to start their own shop in Malvern PA. Tony actually
trained on the Valeo when it first came out so I am hoping this bit of misfortune actually leads me to a great find
in having a Master Tech nearby with Valeo experience.

Keep your fingers crossed it's something simple!

JZ

 

Uh, make that "simple and inexpensive"!!

I suspect it will be, especially if Tony understands how the Valeo works. Keep us posted!

Regards,
Jerry

 

Sounds like you have the same problem as what "FRARI" posted: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/337292-valeo-potentiometer.html


"... mechanic by passed the switch as it was not telling the ecu that the car was in neutral and consequently when you turn the key all the correct lights came on but it would not even engage the starter.by passing this switch allows it to now start and all is good but you can now start it in gear which was not possible before..."

Either rebuilt the Potentiometer or bypass it inorder to start your car. So there is a nuetral switch that is preventing your car from engaging the starter as I suspected.

Best

 

Good find.

Rebuilding would be most desired if not too expensive. Potentiometer shouldn't be that hard to rebuild if: 1. the rebuilder knows relatively what he/she is doing and 2. the parts are readily and cheaply available. Tony should cover the first, not sure about the second or how much labor is involved in the rebuild.

There is a reason for a neutral safety switch, so bypassing is the less desirable option IMHO. In these older cars, it often comes down to cost/availability of parts to get the job done.

Regards,
Jerry

 

The Valeo system needs a constant 12v of current to work correctly. I would try testing the battery, and looking into the actuator and and power source that runs to the actuator. Perhaps there is a crimped wire somewhere.