F1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2015: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Everyone knows how bloody hard it is to overtake here. Even on fresh tires vs old ones, it is incredibly hard. How many times have we seen guys with great cars either start from the back due to penalty or needing to make a pitstop early due to damage and then be stuck behind the slow cars for lap after lap?

The team told Ham to stay out. Ham said I'm coming in. Team said fine. Ham is not mentally retarded and knows the pit delta, and it's pretty damn clear on his display how far Rosberg is behind him (measured every 50m orso). He made the call.

Merc didn't pit Rosberg because a) he would be behind Vettel, Hamilton and possibly Kvyat-Raikkonen (I think they where less than 20s behind) and b) they dind't need too...

Toto is managing his driver right now. He's saying they made a **** up, so that Hamilton feels better. When Hamilton feels good he's he's quite possibly the best driver out there. Make him feel insecure and risk the red mist hamilton coming out.

 

That was a serious question by me....Again: I did not see the race but I would like to understand what happened...
You say a pitstop under normal circumstances adds 20 seconds, are these "official" numbers calculated by the team or is it your guess?
Then how big is the difference in the speed on the entrance-exit-passage of the pitlane? If you loose 3-4 seconds under safety car speed compared to race speed the difference in pitting is 3-4 seconds less and not just 0.1-0.5 seconds.
As far as I understood by now Mercedes feared Ferrari on supersoft after the safety car comming in and Hamiltons comment on the tyres feeded that fear that he might loose a restart in case Ferrari changed. Obviously this was the problem of the one leading as he can not react on competitors but only on expectations and they were wrong...I guess this would have happened to Rosberg as well if he would have been in front. Looks like a gamble to me but I do not get why people here think Hamilton is "robbed"...
Just imagine Hamilton staying out, Vettel comming in an passing him on supersofts...The same guys blaming Mercedes for calling him in would blame Mercedes for not calling him in this case...Whatever they do, the front runner just can loose but has nothing to win...

 

But at the end of day, Ferrari did not come in and didn't even pretend that they would. Over taking at Monaco is so so hard that Vet would have had over take both Ham and Ros in very few laps. It was never going to happen. It wasn't a gamble, it was a decision between a good choice (staying out) and a dreadful choice (coming in). They just plain blew it and the team paid the price of losing a certain 1-2, getting a 1-3 and losing ground to their only rivals this season (which is actually good for the show and for us!).

 

That's why Nico, who has no racecraft (LOL) said he never considered coming it.

If you look at how fast he scooted away after the restart, it's pretty clear he had no tyre issues.

 

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LOL you have to go one better ...and you have, nice one Is..

+2 The fact Hamilton was asking if others had or were pitting, told me he was basing his decision to pit himself on the information provided by the pit wall....that is where IMO the problem started and finished, the wrong call was made.

 

WOw too funny Bas.....

 

The press also said he was watching the monitors as well....why so much confusion with a place that passing is literally an impossibility for the most part.

 

Yes confusion reins, well, the upside is, it has given us something to talk about till the next installment..

 

That doesn't make sense (again)
If Hamilton was asking if others were pitting, the team would have said no, because they didn't pit. So.......how did they give him wrong info?

*blinkered*

 

Do we need it lol ??

 

I was merely grouping all you Hamilton detractors together. But you get offended by that?Wow. Maybe Nico Rosberg could lend you some of his sanitary pads...

Same diff.

Hamilton gave the team feedback regarding the status of his tyres. MANY MANY times throughout a race you will hear this type of feedback. Drivers will say "the tyres feel good I can go a few more laps" or "the balance of the car is terrible/the tires are going off". That is the drivers job. To give feedback. By contrast, it is the job of the team to then make use of this feedback and work out when the best time to pit is (i.e to ensure the driver comes out in clear air and doesn't lose time to their rivals/get undercut). THIS IS WHY STRATEGISTS HAVE JOBS. To say that Ham was responsible for his own undoing is sensationalised BS. He saw a screen which showed Merc were out in the pits (suggesting Nico had pitted). And with foresight, made comments about his own tyres because he wanted to be on level footing with the others come the restart.

Mostly agree with this analysis. I think the problem lay with the fact that the gap was initially 26.8 when the safety car came out and the change between VC and real SC. I am not sure how it works but effectively the other cars (Rosy and Vettel) were allowed to go full speed along the pit straight until the second SC line. Further to this, Ham got picked up by the SC before pitting (as per the article someone posted this resulted in his s2 being 9 secs slower than it should've been).

Rosy didn't know which way his own car was facing. Not knowing what is even going on in the race and is different from knowing whether you have the precise amount of time to pit in a complex SC situation...As stated above, Ham gave feedback which is what he is meant to do. When the driver says 'I think my tires are going off' they are not saying 'I want to pit right now'. Implied in that is that the strategists will take that information on board and do their best to find a suitable pit window ASAP. Again, that is why driver's have teams and strategists.

 

anyone who thinks your fanaticism is bordering on insanity is a Hamilton detractor, right?

but there was nothing wrong with his tyres, as shown by how fast Nico went after the safety car. IF there was, then that would be poor tyre management by Hamilton. Are you saying he managed the tyres poorly?

Oh really? Who won the race?

 

About 99% of the world think Hamilton was not to blame for the race loss. It is just a few 'special' people on the f1 forums that think that. I am in the majority here...

Comparitively speaking, if Nico had been on a brand new set (as Lewis assumed based on the evidence available to him) then in comparison Lewis's tyres would have been pretty terrible. Regardless, that is never really an issue anyway in Monaco. Being overcautious backfired here.

I can't even remember which race it was where Nico had no clue what was going on.

 

Got a link to that statistic?

Lewis had input. That doesn't make it his fault, but it doesn't mean he wasn't part of the mistake.

There was no evidence available to Lewis to suggest Nico was going to pit...apart from in Lewis' head.....and maybe yours.

oh...I thought you were talking about THIS race.

So you're suggesting that there was a race during which Nico had no clue what was going on, and this was a race where Lewis' overactive imagination assumed a pit stop where one didn't exist.

I guess they all get a bit confused at times.

 

http://99-percent-of-people-think-Lewis-is-not-to-blame.com

As above, the Merc crew were out in the pits and hadn't mentioned to Lewis that he was pitting. That only means one thing...

 

it means nothing...apart from being ready for anything.

don't worry...no one expects you to have rational thought when it comes to lewis.

 

Seriously toil, you need to ask yourself what you would be saying if the situation was reversed.
Imagine it was Nico who was miles in front and then he came into the pits unnecessarily and by doing so handed Lewis the race.

I think we all know the answer. It would be the polar opposite of what you are saying now.

 

You know Steve, you could be onto something there!

 

how often have we seen pit crews racing out to pretend a pit stop to fool competition.
how often have we seen pit crews racing out to be ready just in case.

I bet you the Merc gang might even have been ready to double stop lewham and rosy in one go, just in case.

The last thing you want is make a strategic decision and then find the gang in garage napping.

whichever way you turn it, the crew being out means nothing whatsoever, except them being out.

Lewis panicked, maybe as suggested elsewhere him/Merc got himself fooled by Ferraris coming out... Doesn't matter, the world will continue spinning and Canada will come. Lewis has stuffed up things much worse in the past and came back winning.

 

I don't think that MB will be airing any dirty laundry so we'll never know for sure.

BTW, were you at Como? That's my idea of glamour. Not the horror show that Monaco has become.

 

Why am I not surprised that you have an "explaination" for that again, why it is something completely different

You know what makes this all so annoying? You are whining that Hamilton is roobed by the team winning this without even considering that this team working day and night to give him the possibility to win at all. Without Mercedes building this car and working to keep that advantage over Ferrari Hamilton would now be sitting in a McLaren fighting for the last point to be given...
As soon as Hamilton wins something you tell us how fantastic this achievement was even if it is a simple start-finish victory...But as soon as Hamilton does not win all the world is so unfair and the team is to blame...Obviously you did not understand the word "team" at all!!!
Or to be more precise: nobody says it is just Hamiltons fault that it went wrong but he was part of the conversation that led to this, no more no less...They made the decision as a TEAM and they lost, get over it, **** happens...

Last race the team changed the strategy for Hamilton after he screwed the start and you were telling us how brilliant he drove without even mentioning the work of the strategists in the background...

 

Yes, that is why I was not able to watch the race...As BMW is not in F1 anymore they were not even showing the race on the screens...
I am working on the images right now, will follow in a few days...Was a great event with a lot of great cars (including the Agnelli 166MM)...

 

Typical response, I could have along with what you say to an extent, that's until you quote it is a blinkered view.

So forgive me for repeating myself, but that is the point, where the confusion is, and basically a cock-up ensued thereafter.

Other than that Lewis either could have disobeyed a team order and stayed out or come in, like I previously stated, it was 6 of one half a dozen of the others fault.

Obviously the pit should have been decisive in there comms with Ham, and said NO! DO NOT COME IN!.

 

If the situation were reversed I would be gloating and laughing at Nico's misfortune. Though I would undoubtedly acknowledge what an unlucky bugger he was. I probably wouldn't hang around in here too much though...many of you could easily point out that Hamilton (had the roles been reversed) was 26 secs behind Rosberg. In fact you'd all probably be having a field day trying to troll some of us into retaliating (and I would probably get banned).

Yes it could mean a host of things (that someone is going to pit being the most likely inference). Given the demarcation of roles within a team, I think it is clear who is to be blamed for blunders in strategy... and that is chief strategist James Vowles. No wonder he hid away in the team's offices after the race...

Anyway, this point has been flogged to death. Keep thinking Lewis is to blame if you want and I will keep thinking he isn't. Yes he will come back. Doesn't change the fact Nico had no answer and was 27 secs behind on a track he is strong at. Is sad when an f1 race is decided by something so artificial. oh well.

What the team giveth the team taketh away... everybody apportions blame and praise. I am over it... Ham is still 10 points ahead and this will at least make the championship (which looked to be a runaway) more exciting. Just cannot understand how some of you genuinely believe it is Hamilton's fault.