We often read how Ferrari has fallen from grace, that the last World Title now goes back to 2008 etc... But has anyone looked at McLaren? Their last World Title goes back to 1998... That was in the last century....and to add to the problem, rumours abound about financial instability not only in the F1 division but also and especially in the road car division. Has Ron's arrogance finally caught up with him??
Where did you hear rumors that their road car and f1 divisions are having financial trouble? I thought they took out a loan to help for that?
It is common knowledge, confirmed to me by a recently departed McLaren senior person. By the way, taking out a loan to solve financial woes does not mean the woes are over...perhaps to the contrary...
Is Ron still at odds with the middle eastern investors and still looking around for substantial loans to help him buy them out? I thought their road division had turned a small profit or was that yet more Mclaren bull****?
I've seen some threads about how rapidly their cars depreciate. Assuming that is true, would this instability exacerbate that? T
On the road car front: Perhaps they could make them look prettier--you know more like an F355 or so....
The f1 team seem to really struggle building a competitive car these days. They should've been right their with Williams last year but clearly couldn't build the chassis to compete. The last Mac I liked was the Merc/Mac super car several years ago and waaaaay Back when they were doing high end audio....TAG/Mclaren. Thinking bout it now... I'm just assuming it was the same Mac
Its satisfying that Alonshole whom slit their financial throat not too long ago has hobbled himself in the end. When you run out of backs to stab there is always your own.
If not for the Ferrari scandal and being disqualified, McLaren would have won the Constructors Championship in 2007 - they scored more points than Ferrari. They also won the Drivers Championship in 2008 - so they were competing at the front of the grid as recently as 2008. Perhaps you should re-look at McLaren if you think their last title was 1998 - even then, Hakkinen won the Drivers Title in 1999 as well; they were very competitive through the early 2000s also, Kimi lost the title in 2005 through unreliability (one too many engine failures or tire failures), not from having a slower car.
When did Williams last win a WDC let alone the WCC consolation price? McLaren making road cads ... why? BTW: McLaren won the WDC in 2008 so actually their last world championship is one year closer than Ferraris ... Pete
+1 ... wonder where the OP got his numbers from ... weird. The OP has simply proven that Ferrari are performing worst than McLaren! Pete
You mean if they didn't cheat they would have won the title in 2007? Yeah that makes sense. Presumably Ferrari would've been champions 2008-2014 if they cheated. All they had to do was obtain the blueprints of the faster cars, pay 100m fines, and hey, presto, titles!
For myself, I hope that Mclaren will soon bounce back in F1. Not only they are only second to Ferrari as the second long existing GP team, but they have also an impressive track record, plenty of constructors and drivers championships, etc... Since Enzo Ferrari's demise, they have been the team I watched with most interest. Sure, they lost their way somehow under Windmarsh, when Ron Dennis was not hands-on in the team. Hard to accept they could be a spent force in GP. As for McLaren as a road car company, I think its quite an achievement. I managed to visit the factory two years ago (it's only down the road from me), and I came back really impressed. Everything is state of the art and very clinical; more like a laboratory than a car factory. McLaren are really beautifully engineered vehicles, I must say, better than some cars I could name. Dennis is a perfectionist, and that's reflected on the cars. The only think I don't like on them are doors openings - just a matter of taste. The big question is if they will produce 10,000 cars yearly shortly to be financially viable.
+1 As most here know, I'm no "fan" of the boys from Woking, and Uncle Ron in particular, but all joking aside they're one of the few truly great teams. FWIW - nothing, really - I don't really have any feelings at all on their road cars - they may or may not succeed there, but the F1 team has to be respected at the least. We Tifosi may not "like" them, or the guy himself, but as you say, they're second only to Ferrari when it comes to F1. As has been said many times, "anyone who writes them off is a fool". There is no doubt they'll be back, title sponsor or not. Cheers, Ian
A big part of the problem with McLaren is that Ron Dennis is obsessed with trying to "out Ferrari" Ferrari, not only on track but on the road as well. He once said in an interview that he could see the day when the stands at F1 races would have more McLaren hats/shirts/tops/flags etc., than "the red team" (as he called them back then due to not being able to bring himself to say Ferrari [at least he's got over that mental issue!] ). As I recall, Martin Brundle stated afterwards that he personally couldn't ever see that happening. To this day, he still thinks that McLaren are the "British Ferrari", and that they should have as big a following as the Scuderia. He simply cannot understand why his team and cars (both track and road), are not worshipped in the same way as Ferrari. If you look at the entire McLaren business plan, it's just a replica of everything that Ferrari does that lags behind 6 months to a year after Ferrari do it. (I swear blind that if Ferrari announced that they were making a supercar with only three wheels, 6 months later McLaren would be announcing their plan to make a three wheeled supercar!) The difference is, McLaren's road cars, whilst technological masterpieces, seem to lack the intrinsic DNA that every road going Ferrari has and has always had - Soul! Fast as they are, McLaren's cars come across as being exactly what they are: Cold, lifeless machines that are designed purely for one purpose - To go fast. They do their jobs exceptionally well and incredibly efficiently (in the same way that a modern fridge freezer does), but they seem to lack personality (just like a fridge freezer). Ferrari's on the other hand always seem to be more personal. They have character and personality naturally built into them. Whilst the McLaren seems to be just a tool to go fast, Ferrari's are more of a mate or a mistress, having a laugh and an adventure with you on every drive (and encouraging you to be a bit naughty at the same time). The fact that they are not perfect in every area in the way that a McLaren has been designed to be, and the fact that they do have certain flaws, is a big part of what gives them that personality (and a big bugbear for Ron: How can anyone love something that is not perfect?). It's the imperfections and flaws that help give Ferrari's their character, and more importantly, their Soul! With a McLaren road car you can have an incredible experience with it, with a Ferrari you can have an incredible relationship with it to go with the incredible experience. I think Ron's constant, obsessive pursuit to "out Ferrari" Ferrari could be a big problem for his company in the long run. He needs to realise that, love his company as much as he does, it's never going to be as loved by the rest of the World as Ferrari is, that's just a fact of life!
