The seats are hard to find but many of the original seats were replaced to conform to racing regs as the seats do expire. The rear wing is very hard to find but the first year of challenge cars did not have a rear wing. The carbon door panels are very hard to find but could be replicated. All in all it would be very expensive to create one and then you would have to have some sort of pictures from the past and past owners to verify. Hard to do especially when any future conversions would also have a title and ministry history.
If one were to create one, I think the money would be similar to a non-raced original. The value is in the factory made racing parts and racing history, not who assembled it - it doesn't matter driving experience wise whether the factory assembled it, a dealer assembled it or a good indy/knowledagble owner assembled it and when they assembled it. It would be expensive to do and there are as good or better parts available now aftermarket for less money, so I don't much see the point.
All these Challenge "inspired clones" only make the real ones more desirable Taking what left over spare parts and adding them to a B does not make them a Challenge I raced my spider on a track that don't make it a spider challenge car. People do like to stretch the truth to fit their agenda especially when money is involved. Used car dealers lie? Nahhh never happens All the orig Challenge cars are verified and have serial number records from when they were raced and easy enough to verify.
Speaking of these cars, does anybody have the options list for what these cars had brand new? As an example, a few years ago there was a gentleman on here who advertised for sale door panels that were felt (cloth) covering a Plexiglas or aluminum sheet, they were supposed to be much lighter than the standard internal door. Supposedly they were factory original/supplied but I wasn't able to find them in the Challenge parts catalog... Was everything documented from the factory in the CH addendum to the parts manual or were there other things that are rare (such as the Challenge original cover?).
Re-creating the F355 Challenge is Very Expensive and YES all the parts are available minus the oem OMP Challenge Seat. New that is, used can be found but, not in pairs. It really depends on what you want at the end of the day; a Fast Challenge Car that looks good or a beaten to death Challenge car with history + costly major service to bring to somewhat original performance? Both are equal in terms of track times and running cost. The F355 delivers true enjoyment out on track especially tight twisty ones. The longer track provide a disadvantage to today’s modern sports car as all have far more torque and somewhat equal handling, let’s not forget most have various electronic driving aids or PSM. Ferrari 355 is pure driver input!
1999 Ferrari 355F1 Berlinetta with NEW OEM Challenge Setup, still mising a few parts. https://youtu.be/1Ak3TPVuisM Chasing a 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 out on the Circuit of the Americas.
I think there are lots of valuable topics to discuss and assess: I'm biased. I think the most valuable cars are the ones that raced during one or more of the challenge seasons and have history. The race history to me is what is unique and most valuable. Others will disagree quite vocally. What if a challenge car driver blew an engine and replaced the $40,000 item from the Ferrari Truck at the track? MANY did this. Engine numbers won't match then... Will collectors care or require an AMEX receipt? Driver's won't. It doesn't erase the car's history or accomplishments on the track or how it drives today. What about $25,000 gearboxes replaced from the Ferrari trailer? Ask me how I know. I don't think a collector would need a classiche on a challenge car if it has the race history backing it up? We need to write a book on the series so we can have a defining record since Ferrari hasn't stepped up to the plate. If a car raced in only 1 race or 2 or 3 and then was put away forever, does that make them less valuable than a car that was raced multiple seasons or more? Do you place more value on a car that won the challenge series but was punted into a wall a couple of times or the car that ran 20th place every weekend but never saw a scratch with the driver just happy to be there? There are a lot of gray areas. We'd all love to own the season winner that never hit another car or wall, but we know that is not possible. I'll try to post some photos of carnage that took place. Some cars were so totaled that owners transferred all the parts to a donor car with new VIN and continued racing. What about a like-new challenge car in the sultan of brunai's collection that never ever raced? You see it gets gray. What about a challenge car never raced that had the full kit in a box or installed? Sounds wonderful as well. And it wouldn't have been punted. More gray. What about a car that raced that was restored to the street that no longer has any of the parts like the one in the OCTANE or EVO article? We aren't really going to set values in this thread. That is really only for buyers or collectors or auctions to set with successful sales. Many owners just want to drive them on track and could care less on speculating. I think if a car has the parts per the book, then it's "in-spec" whether it raced or not. The racing and history is icing on the cake. There is only one F355 that raced in the '95 US season and that's Barry car. Many '95's were bought in '96 and competed in the '96 and '97 series. These cars were converted with the full kit from a dealer. Then in '98, the number of parts added to the cars went up exponentially. The wing was only one of hundreds of parts. Are there re-creations out there? Yes. Some doing it to get a better, tighter driving experience. Some doing it to try to make money. As long as when it's sold, all info on its history is on the table. Buyers can decide then. Many challenge parts are NLA new or used, so that ship has sailed as well. I bet only a handful of cars - both raced and non-raced (IF ANY) have ALL the parts listed in the books. So you can't really bend the rules on what a complete car is or not. it's an arbitrary process at best. Let's buy them to race them. Let's modify them to race them (safely) and make us better drivers. The collectors will weigh in at some point. Those that do their due diligence will be fine and be able to put their value on the cars. Those looking for a quick flip will probably get burned. Robb
Robb, this is a good post but I don't think that it was possible to buy a 355 Challenge that was never raced. I think that you could only order one if you agreed to race a certain number of races. You could buy one of the 45 348 Challenges and not races it and there are a handful that weren't (mine is one of those) but I think that Ferrari didn't like that so you could only buy a 355 if you raced it. By the time the 360 came about, they let anyone order one as they had full fields in Challenge by then. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
Good post Robb. For me the interesting part in owning a Challenge car is the racing history. I actually went through all the service documentation and liked reading about the stuff they did to prep the car for a race and then, when the car came back from that race, what items they had to fix. The other cool part is communication with the guys who raced the car back in the day and learning more about it's history. My car was on the podium only once - 3rd place finish at Pikes Peak - but it was also shipped to Imola and ran in the world finals. For a Senna fan like myself that makes it freaking awesome. I also like the fact there are so few Challenge cars out there and I like the fact mine has a history that I can research. Before I bought my car I was also considering a 512TR. What turned me onto the 355 Challenge instead was the scarcity and the knowledge that even if I had the fortune to run into another Challenge car at an event we both will have far different car histories to share. Plus it has a video game named after the series that I used to play in my youth - doesn't get much cooler than that.
I know of several late F355's Challenge cars in Asia that where never raced, only used for private track days. It was frowned upon, but I suspect getting a car depended on who you are and the relationship with the dealer, and lets not forget , the dealer is in the business of selling cars. These cars had extremely limited use ( one I saw had done 1200ks ) and was completely original, as built. (No probs getting classiche on that one.! ) As you said, from the 360 onwards there are quite a few Challenge cars with no challenge race history, purchased just for private "fun" use. Generally tend to be in fantastic condition - no hits or modification. M
In the interim, An der schönen blauen Donau, Op. 314 Johann Strauss II... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHR6c4NTHmE[/ame]
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Okay, I mean a North American car from a North American dealer, not a friend of the factory or pininfarina or anyone. But that said, other than rhd or lhd, are there any differences around the world? Can you import a 355 challenge car from another market? Obviously, they're not supposed to be street legal...
The F355 challenge car that was restored at Ferrari of Houston recently is a Venezuela car with a B in its VIN. I believe it is now for sale in CA. There were other cars FOH helped bring up from S.A. I will try to ask some of the challenge managers back in the day (that I have recently talked to) about car deliveries outside of their teams. A book about the series would be a cult hit. Who's in? I'm also not trying to insult any owners or their cars or their values. It's obvious that values and completeness are on owners minds - along with getting to the track and the many driving and racing threads. Our car was missing a few components that we have now sourced after a lot of work. But I'm not still sure it would pass a classiche... And our car also was in several bruising fights with other cars and tracks and our own drivers' skills. So with our history, we get those other side-effects. We are working on getting a street-legal title (only for legal reasons) but I will tell you that we have no real reason or desire to ever drive it on the road. Even to get to the track. We are going to pick up a dedicated trailer. We took it for some laps here in AZ in our area and... It is that hard. It is that tight. It's main purpose for us will be outstanding track time. We are so excited about that. A Challenge Stradale is a Cadillac compared to our F355 challenge cars. Robb
Hello guys, also for me, total interesting discussion, but Please Post here cars they are for sale, much easyier for the future 😉
Talked to Robb today on the phone as he went through his books and found out who drove my car and where. Just need to find out the car # and we can then find out more of the history. When I gave Robb my cars serial #, it took him just a couple of minutes to find out some key info on my Challenge car and I was excited to say the least. The team was team France and raced on the west coast of Europe. The driver was Bernard Goury. My car raced at Nurburgring in 97 as well as other tracks, which with the help of Robb and others we will find out most if not all of the history in time. These cars are beautiful and exciting. I can't wait to find a picture of my car so I can return it to original livery. What I also talked to Robb about was trying to get together some sort of complete records of all the 355 Challenge cars....where, when and who drove them in what races. How they finished, old race and team pics combined together with the serial numbers of these cars. I know this will take time but if we could get all the info on these cars in one book, it would be a great resource for all of us owners. I hope Robb takes on the task but we will have to help him get all this info as this will not be easy and will more than likely take a while. Again, Thanks Robb Williamson.......amazing.
Robb -- amazing - you're becoming the de facto historian of these 355CH vehicles. I'll PM you my serial see if you have anything good to say about it
I am excited about the task at hand. Happy to help the group and get it right. Owners can email me their car's information. I'll make a spreadsheet with many categories specific to teams, seasons, races, colors, driver names, etc. We will link information from multiple sources and be able to verify it. I'll see if Bruce Miller in Houston will support us with the project with a photo of each car that ran so we can have a good photo library. It would be great to see a picture from then compared with each car today. Should be a great journey getting the complete group of cars "immortalized." I'll nominate Sherpa to do the same for the 348 challenge cars. Robb
I have ADD and ADHD with sever PMS, I will help anyway I can to get a history going There are a few challenge cars here locally that dont do the internet thing
