Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

What's the story behind the "VS" name ? did I miss something ? What does it stand for ?

 

Weren't GTOs merely built to satisfy the rules surrounding what cars could enter production based racing series? They wanted to race a certain car in a certain series, and so they had to build X amount of cars according to whatever the rules were at the time. No doubt the rules have changed over time, but the spirit of the idea should remain the same.

I don't believe the 599 GTO really fits with the idea of homologation. Homologation was with respect to racing and the rules of such. The XX program is not a race series and the cars don't race anywhere else. I'm not even sure if you could race a 599xx in any real racing series. What exactly is being homologated and under what rules or authority?

Let me ask you this: Would you call it the 599 GTO if Ferrari didn't? Would it strike you as a GTO in the nature of the term? IMO I don't think you would. I think if they called it the 599 Scuderia, no one would refer to the process as homologation.

599 GTO was not built in the same spirit as the 250 GTO or the 288 GTO, hence I don't think they really care about using the moniker ad nauseum going forward so long as it sells lots of cars.

 

Versione Speciale - internal project description until they settle on something final.

The first Speciale Aperta product notes were distributed before the name was settled, and in these the car was presented as F142 VS.

The current working title of the F12 "GTO" is F152 VS.

 

Thank you Q ;-)

 

If Ferrari purely cared about maximizing short term profit, MsRPs would be a lot higher. They are managing a brand and history is a big part of it. I guess I would count myself among the very surprised if they were to call it GTO.

Mario

 

Like James Bond says, when you need something, just ask Q !

Thanks !

 

I completely Agree with this.

People seem to confuse "Road version of a Track car" (Wich is the real maening of "Challenge stradale")

and "Homologation NEEDED to make a car run in a particular Race".

 

Indeed. I like the lowered stance and the LaF brakes. Wheels are super wide. The rear is disguised to look like the existing F12 and lots of sensor wires are running from under the car to inside the car. With the reveal coming up we should start seeing other mules and be better able to piece the new possibilities together as was the case with the 488 and prior releases. Should be a fun summer.

 

Just to throw another source into the mix, my source says it wont be called a GTO. Generally though there seems to be a lot of confusion about this car, is it a road race or a more HGTE, seems quite early in the life to be bringing out a road racer version of the F12 but one wonders how successful sales wise the 599 HGTE was...hence the reason for perhaps skipping the intermediate upgraded model this time around.

 

We have a winner.

 

I think the biggest point that most people seem to be missing here is that they don't need to use the GTO moniker to sell cars and in particular this one, no matter what they call the new limited edition stripped F12 it will sell out immediately, demand will far outstrip supply and Ferrari know that. So with that underlying certainty why would they stop caring about their brand heritage and history? There is no financial benefit to them, in fact I can only see future brand detriment by going down that particular path and I'm sure they understand that. Having said that if they want to help car sales and put the moniker on a regular run production series going forward I can see how that may potentially help sales and increase revenues in the very short term, but on a limited series I say again......no benefit whatsoever!

 

Why let such a great moniker go unused now that they've popped the seal and used it again? It's a good name with good history. If they can call their halo car something as dumb as a Ferrari LaFerrari, then I think they can stomach using GTO more regularly.

Will the F12 have a GTO? Dunno, but I have a feeling we'll see another GTO a lot sooner than 30 years...

 

I've been priviliged to get in on a fair bit of info on the VS. With that in mind, you can spot plenty of "VS cues" on that mule, if you know what to look for. Hence why I'm certain that's a VS mule.

It will be a fun summer, and when it finally lands the F12 VS will probably surprise many by how new it actually is.

 

Believe me I was surprised myself as I'm originally from North America. I walked in and ordered the car and had it 4months later. With the current exchange rate the price difference is wide..

 

Was there any hint at how many will be produced?

 

Nelson I hope you are right and Roupin very funny. Who knows. The speculation game is fun. Not trying to upset any of you. Sorry for the snarky comment. Should have just said nothing.

 

Yes, and the number is all but finalized.

 

Financial times were more difficult when the 599 was done. Maybe there will be a bigger budget to do a comparably more bespoke sporting version of the F12?

 

I think noone1 has a very good way of looking at all of this. The definition of "To Homologate" is "To Approve". Unlike the 288GTO and 250GTO, the 599GTO was not made to approve the 599XX for anything. The other GTO cars were made to approve certain cars for racing. What the 599GTO is, is a street oriented version of the 599XX, but it is not a car made to approve the 599XX for any kind of racing, or anything else for that matter. That in itself is not a bad thing at all, and it does not take anything away from the 599GTO. But I think noone1 is very right in saying, that in actuality a name like Scuderia etc. would be just as fitting. 599XX Stradale would have been a very fitting name for the car, and very telling. It seems to me that every time this is brought up, the 599GTO owners act like we're trying to make it a lesser car. Nothing could be further from the truth. But it strikes me, and probably others here as well, as a bit hypocritical to complain about the fact that Ferrari might call the F12 VS the F12GTO, when I for one fail to see what about the 599GTO makes it a GTO. Ferrari can say and write what they want about what they think a GTO is. But the definition of the term "To Homologate" is very clear, and the basic rules of what defines homologation in motorsport was not made by Ferrari, but FISA/FIA.
Perhaps they will call it the LaF12

Question to the OP. When I read the headline of this thread, it looks to me as you don't like the fact that the revised F12 might have 800+hp. What's wrong with that? Or am I reading it wrong?

 

Good post and as you say, what wrong with 800HP? Every new model will probably have more power than the outgoing.

 

Exactly ... strictly speaking, it is the sanctioning body that provides the "O" to the "GT" moniker. This was exactly the process in the 250GT generation. Ferrari provided the "GT", and the sanctioning body provided the "O" (quite literally, in fact) to indicate that the sanctioning body had approved the car for racing.

But alas, this meaning of GTO ... this rather strict definition ... was already abandoned for the 288GTO. Enzo himself simply decided to call the car the "GTO", even though Enzo himself had no authority to "homologate" or "approve" the car for racing (that authority resting solely with the sanctioning body).

So what does GTO really mean? Ever since the 288 generation, the "GTO" moniker means whatever Ferrari decides and intends it to mean.

 

Well highlighted Werewolf. The point is that in all three cases there was an underlying race car/series which related to the GTO, admittedly this became more tenuous with the generations but nonetheless existed. My main contention here is that there are a few on this board who are convinced that the F12VS will be called a GTO and as there is no associated race car/series whatsoever in existence or planned for the F12 how can its use be justified? Yes people are saying Ferrari can do whatever it wants, which is true, but they have a brand to manage and there are some things that just don't make sense and some lines which can not be crossed if the aim is to maintain heritage and brand integrity. IMO this is one of those lines. For sure there will be another GTO at some point but just not now with the F12.......just the thought of it seems ridiculous. This, of course, doesn't detract from the fact the the F12VS will be spectacular in its own right and I will make every effort to get one!

 

I will agree that the GTO moniker has come to loosely mean "somehow connected to racing" my main point is that the 599 generation was not the first to break from a strict definition of "homologation" (as it pertains to GT cars). For what it's worth, i have it on very good authority that the "special" F12 will not be called a GTO.

 

Because it will give 599 GTO fans (that care) a chance to defer the wrath they might feel onto another car and fanbase?

 

Remove 250Kg, with a slight increase in hp. Maybe to 780. Call it F12 Squalo. My 599 may be traded for an F12 but now I am not sure. After all, I can't use the power here in Ontario anyway.