Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

Nothing wrong with more power, but it's the way it was said that shocked me : "the new gto will have 800 hp", ........ Wait what?! The new "gt--what!?" Was my response.
I don't run Ferrari, but I too think they should stick with the 30 year name cycle. But then I'm reminded again I don't run the company.

I hope with enough internet hate, they will call it something else.

 

Question. If Ferrari actually name the car "F12 GTO". Can I quote you on this?

 

The "GTO" name is now a marketing gimmick. Instead of calling it a 599 scud (like a 430 scud) they had to change it up, so they called it a GTO. In what racing series were 599's used? They took a production car, did a few things to it to make it feel different, then the marketing team took over. Fancy books, fancy price, fancy production numbers etc..and they sold every one of them.

Ferrari's marketing department is the best there ever was.

 

When I received a call from my dealer to ask if I wanted to place a deposit on the then upcoming 599 GTO I was happy to oblige. I owned (then) a GTB and thought it a superb car. I had no big interest in the GTO name other than it was kinda cool to see it back. I was far more interested in the performance outputs of the car. I hoped for a big step up from the GTB.

Then the internet went into overdrive calling the 599 GTO a marketing stunt, that it was going to be as big price uplift over the GTB for not much gain. I was concerned and asked the dealer to calm my fears. He didn't so in reaction I told him to pull my order. Within 24 hours my order was back on, luckily. I had slept on it and come to the conclusion why would Ferrari ever launch a car in the modern era that they knew was a rip off? The damage would be huge. The GTO name was and is irrelevant. The fact is my 599 GTO is day and light different from a GTB, and is a sensational car to drive. For me, that floats my boat.

I would say 98% of the heat behind "don't call the next F12 a GTO" is generated because of resale implications for owners, and I get this. My RHD GTO has doubled in value since she was delivered. But the arguments about what makes or doesn't make a GTO is frankly overdone. I'm no expert but I think I've read somewhere Enzo bent the rules to get the 250 GTO approved for racing.

If Ferrari decide that all their extreme V12s from now on have the GTO badge to set them apart, and if they happen to make more money from this, and speaking as a 599 GTO owner from new, I say good luck to them! The critical item and surely the only one that matters, is that the cars in question live up to the status. Waiting 30 years for another GTO just because that was the previous gap is a charming wish but unrealistic.

The irony for current 599 GTO owners who are foaming at the mouth is if the upcoming F12 is called a GTO, if it oozes huge menace and ticks every performance box, the impact on 599 GTO values may be negative in the short term but long term can only be positive - people may even want to begin collecting the "modern GTO series". So long as the car lives up to the billing.

As always it's the output of the "product" and the skills with which the marketing guys wrap this functional core strength that defines success. Never a name. Would you happily pay a premium to buy an electronic product named after a fruit? Of course not

 

+1

 

Here we go again........comments like this are just getting plain old BORING!

 

Right you are!

 

Its being tested right now under camouflage at fiorano test track

 

Haha could I stop somebody on a public forum short of a restraining order ? Please feel free to quote me in or out of context. Q aka Mr. Maranello submits that this car is currently characterized (pre-production) as a "VS" or Versione Speciale (I'm probably spelling this incorrectly). The F12 is already a very good car. IMHO the F12 does NOT need more HP. Rather beefing up the cars handling via weight reduction, suspension tuning, etc. would make the car a more "extreme" performer. To make the F12 in a GTO version, regardless of homologation arguments, would require a staggering amount of substantive changes. The 599 GTO is different in so many ways from the GTB that we'd be better of employing the GTO owners manual as a tutorial and going through all of the changes from the GTB.

 

Even assuming that the 599 GTO could have been called something different than a GTO, the plain facts are that the GTO version of the 599 is a radical departure in every major substantive performance category from the GTB. From the engine which is directly derived from the 599XX to its transmission which does multiple downshifts like the 599XX, the GTO is a radical departure from the GTB. There are literally dozens of differences in the cars. About the ONLY thing the GTO and GTB have in common is the body style. Rather than impugn the integrity of the Ferrari marketing department why not educate yourself about the factories perception of why the 599 GTO deserved the moniker. Ignorance is bliss.

 

My dealer said it would be called GTO.

 

Ok whilst we continue to speculate and insist on what would clearly be absurd, my guess is that they will call it the Enzo.

Someone explain to me why that would be any less likely than GTO??

 

+1 … I thought we had beaten this one to death.

 

Latest info I have says it will be a very, very special car … Wait and see.

 

ok - any idea of what the number is?

 

700 is what I'm hearing but demand seems way up there so certainly subject to change. Sell as much as you can … seems to be the motto

 

Just guessing But I think it will be similar to 458 Speciale no number
announced and then they will follow up with a limited number of F12 Aperta's

 

is 675LT performance a realistic expectation?

 

I think you might want a rethink!

I am now convinced on what I have been told, that it will be sold at a far higher price point than the standard car, around 400k euros + taxes as stated earlier, and this will enable dealers to sell both cars until the F12M comes out.

I now know pretty much what to expect, talthough I am sure there will be a surprise or two, the only major question mark is on numbers. Will they do a Speciale and almost run 'Speciale' as a sub brand across the range or will they do a limited edition at around 700/800?My guess is a limited edition as otherwise that is a big price to ask for what the car is, and the price is for sure.

Maybe there might be a Cali Speciale at some stage?

 

tortesq1,

We know you are the new 599 GTO Ambassador, and perform quite a good job at it I might add, but lets not get too loose here. Have you actually tallied the OEM part number codes for each of the two cars to base that statement on?

Find a quiet afternoon and go to www.eurospares.co.uk and crosscheck as many parts as you wish as it is easy to do. It will tell you exactly which part numbers are the same. Go in both directions by selecting the GTB model and it will tell you what other cars share the exact same part number. Unfortunately, I had plenty of time over the winter recovering from a broken back so I hope your search will be under better circumstances! At least when you are done you will know the real facts from which to base future parts sharing statements.

This, of course, does not change anything about the identity of the two cars. I'm sure you will still be the Ambassador because of the way the car makes you feel. Also, I found that indeed most important parts are unique to the GTO. I also found many parts that I thought were unique but were not. Perhaps my takeaway was 1) Ferrari is absolutely crazy with all their parts prices! and 2) they did an excellent job making a completely superior car to the one they started with.

 

I love to read a Well built reasoning. This is exactly what I think.

@Stephen (Tortesq1) You LOVE your GTO and I love to read you loving posts about your car

BUT

I just think you seem a little bit too much self confident in the fact the there will be no F12 GTO...

Like if Jesus woke you up one night tellin' you "Thou shalt not produce another GTO within 30 years"

 

From my latest information I understand it will be called Speciale, or it currently is, so all GTO owners can chill! Begs the question as to whether they will establish Speciale as a sub brand for every model denoting a more track focused version. Could there then be a Cali Speciale?

However, it is apparently a furiously quick epic car, the test drivers favourite, and that includes the LF.

But prepare yourself guys, there will be another GTO and it will be an F12, but not for a while.

 

A valid point and candidly I could care less about part numbers. IMHO the issue is whether the GTO's most important parts (I'd call them "systems") are indeed a substantive departure from the GTB. Whether they are a radical departure is subject to debate, but I'd argue that the important stuff like the engine and transmission (among other systems) are unequivocally 599XX based and a radical departure from the GTB. One can argue that this is all semantics and that the XX and GTO are merely GTB based derivatives and thats just fine with me. I just respectfully disagree. As an aside, I hope your back is feeling better. Being a plaintiff only negligence attorney I unfortunately see the devastation that such an injury can cause. When its all said and done all of our cars are simply meaningless toys unless you have your health.

 

Has anybody seen the car and confirm if they have removed the "tanga butt"? Jeez, I HATE IT!

 

First customer viewings start this month.