Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

The F152 VS is an utterly extreme machine. Couple those traits with its exclusivity, and it will no doubt hold its value.

AFAIK this is the "GTO" for the F12. There may be other limited edition F12's in the works, but I've heard nothing but ungrounded rumours. It's fair to assume any future limited F12 will not eclipse the sheer performance potential of this upcoming car.

 

On reflection you may well be right as there will be no more power to be wrung from this motor, from what we have both heard little room for improvement possible in the highly advanced suspension/steering/aero, so that suggests, contrary to what I was told, no GTO unless this car does get the badge to help justify the price, as, as you say, how could they improve it? Next step is likely to be either turbo V12 or V12 + Kers so this could be the ultimate N/A V12 like the Speciale is to the V8 range?

But then I don't see Macchione giving up on the additional income possible by using the GTO moniker for this model range, and against that I know this car was referred to as GTO within the Factory during its R&D only more recently becoming VS. Confused?

Ferrari are just brilliant at keeping us all confused, talking and guessing, all the while, without anyone seeing anything really indicative on the streets, just a relatively standard looking F12 with a few bits of tape. They will then most likely shock us with something fully developed and amazing.

 

To me it sounds very strange that there will come three new versions of the F12. I would say a "GTO version" and maybe a "Aperta", but this is just based on own reasoning instead of things I heard.

Anyway, curious about coming weeks/months when more details about specs and exterior will be revealed

 

It will have something which involves the 4 wheel aspect … think of the 991 GT3 and GT3 RS and something LaF doesn't have. Knowing Ferrari they will have it down to perfection. Should do the car a world of good in the handling department both at low and high speed.

 

The only special version of the F12 that I'm currently aware of is this VS. As we both know, rumours of other Limited Edition F12's have been swirling around for quite some time, although there is yet to be any substantial confirmation convincing me such a car is in the works. Just this week I heard talk from someone who so-called claimed to have seen the fabled "F12 Spider" everyone's waiting for - which I'm still not convinced is happening.

Is yet another Limited Edition F12 likely? In the long run of things, I'd certainly say there's a >50% chance of something which isn't hyper exclusive like the America. But right now, it's with the rumours for my part.

The use of the GTO name is not An easy decision. Utilising the moniker on a car not deemed "GTO worthy" dilutes the value of the trademark. There is little discussion that the GTO moniker on the 599 is lesser than on the 288/250.

I'm a firm believer in that the GTO name should be reserved for cars which are bred from track/competition/race machinery (the 599 GTO does fall into this category, for those wondering). The only logical application of GTO on the F12 would be something FXX K derived. However as we both again know, VS has tech not even featured on FXX K. Furthermore, there hasn't been any time for FXX K to develop tech for road car usage yet either.

My honest prediction is that the F12 will skip the use of GTO, whilst the moniker will reappear on the F12 M VS which is likely to be heavily influenced by the developments of FXX K. Sticking an unpurposeful GTO badge on the F12 will solidly dilute the value of such an evocative and illustrious trademark, not the least upset many collectors, enthusiasts and purists alike. I'm not sure that's a expense they are willing to take.

 

In case you haven't guessed, rear wheel steering seems to be the rumor...

 

I think you are right and that is the most likely outcome which suggests there might be no GTO from this programme unless the M comes out with turbo or Kers in 2017 and then maybe that might spawn something?

 

Cool! But to me it makes more sense if they would introduce this with the new Ferrari FF, probably arriving March 2016.

Bit off-topic: anybody knows what the win in seconds is on a circuit for the 911 with 4 wheel steering?

 

V12's will not utilize forced induction. KERS in some form or another is a given.

 

The amount of seconds depends on the circuit. But RWS effectively shortens the wheelbase which in gives an improvement to turn-in capability and reduction in turning circle.

 

Thanks for the explanation. But when we talk about Fiorano, are we talking about 0.1s, 0,5s, 1s? What kind of impact does it have?

 

That's almost impossible to say. They will add several things at once. Tyres, power, revised suspension and so forth. To say what effect rear wheel steering would have by itself, one would basically need to compare two cars that are set up the same way, except for the steering system. My personal and subjective guess, is that it will contribute to somewhere between 0.5 sec. and 1 sec around Fiorano. I have nothing that backs that up, other than if ti was less, I fail to see the point, and if it was more, it would have been done already.

 

Here's an explanation of the 991 system:

Technology explained: Rear-axle steering | Total 911

 

RWS in gt3 only adds complexity and limitation to owners at least on wheel choice and maintanance.
Has gt3 for couple of months and currently on sale.
It is just another system that most of us wont appriciate during everyday drive.
On track I had more fun with m3 than gt3 and couldnt care less what time gt3 makes.
It all comes down to what emotion and sensation these cars bring to owners not lap time.
For that cars are more becoming like mobile phone.
Faster and newer and less life cycle...

 

This car will be is some way Laferrari without battery and electric motor, I think that for many people it will be something positive, I wonder what impact on Laferrari market will have this new "F12GTO"

 

Hybrids are not even the future - they're here today. LaF, 918, P1, new Honda NSX. This tech will be everywhere in sports cars over the next few years. It's unavoidable - genies out the bottle. The Scuderia eclipsing the Enzo Fiorano lap didn't make the Enzo less valuable or desirable - progress is inevitable.

But progress doesn't always equal emotion & feel hence why there is such a swing to the older more analogue cars

 

Disagree that electric motors and batteries are 'progress' but I get your point. Just as you get used to saying 'power unit' instead of engine they will all become straight electric. Progress.

 

None.

 

Well said

 

The 599 GTO is fanciful marketing. It had nothing to do with the one make series, was nothing more that a Speciale/Scuderia of a standard car. The F12 VS is far greater in technical change versus the std F12, and a far bigger jump that the 599 GTO over GTB. The F12 VS will be the last of the NA V12 cars, and will be a reference in time. It may not be called a GTO, and in reality why not, but it will be an all time great Ferrari. La Ferrari is an awesome car, but this F12 will be sooooo close behind it. Shoot me if I am wrong, but when Chris Harris tries this car, he will be lost for words, as it will be the greatest Ferrari ever made, and be at the limit of what is possible on a road car. The F12 has steadied in value in the Uk, as numbers have balanced to demand, but more than that, people have realised it is one of the greatest road cars ever produced. I like others have done multiple Ferrari cars, but you could not pay me to get a 458/488 now. The F12 is that good, on a day to day level. The VS will be the last of a type, and I agree that a 458 Speciale is a car to buy and keep too. These are the last of a generation. There will be faster and better, but these cars will define a moment in time. IMHO of course.

 

Improves high speed cornering. The F12 VS/GTO will be very close to la Ferrari around Fiorano... This will be one serious MF ....

 

It's need to have more downforce like Aventador SV

 

The F12 is "one of the greatest road cars ever produced"? Slightly optimistic. My Ferrari dealer told me he thought the F12 is far too twitchy and the 599 GTO, by comparison, is a significantly better drive. Also I disagree with your point about UK F12 values, they remain soft in the trade, and ugly private. I agree the 458 Speciale is a sensational drive, and like you I hope the F12 VS or whatever it's called is similarly spectacular. It needs to be.

 

To each his own but I'm having loads of fun with my GT3. It is great value for money and handles very, very well on twisty race tracks and the rear wheel steering system plays a big role in doing so. I love the system and it is more than a rumor that the F12 VS will be equipped with it. Knowing Ferrari they will have the system down to perfection.

 

I want what he's smoking! Hilarious post....instant classic!