Major "30k" service questions...

Hello,

I'm preparing to do the 30k major service (e.g. replace belts, tensioner bearing and others). I see this reference regarding a tensioner tool to twist tensioner when swapping timing belts.

Is this needed even if the tensioner bearing will be replaced as well? I see this the tool needed for quick belt swap but if the tensioner will be replaced I don't see the need to use this tool to twise the tensioner or to keep it in place.

More questions as I research but this is the one that I'm confused so far. Thank you!
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30k ? lolwut ? 360 doesnt have engine out. u wanna replace the whole thing ?

 

Replacing these are standard between 15k to 20k miles. Plus Im upgrading to Hill Engineering tensioners.

 

A good pair of needle nose pliers will do the same thing. Do you have a proper gauge to set the tension?

 

Needle nose pliers? Thats what I thought too.

Isn't there an old school (improvised) way of setting the tension properly?

Thanks

 

That's all I use. No need for a special wrench.

 

How about setting the tension? Is there any alternative to the tension frequency tool?

 

Holding the cam sprockets with vice-grip pliers as shown in the picture above is a great way to break/bend them and a sure recipe for disaster.

 

I cringed when I saw that.

There are many cheap universal plastic tools that will freeze the rotation and not point load the pulleys available. While your at it, buy the spanner. I don't like bunging up the holes in the tensioner bearing.

I don't believe there is a "setup" to setting the tension. It bearing swings on the tensioner to engage tension on the belt and applies the proper tension.

 

There is an iphone app you can use for frequency IIRC. I read about it in this forum so you should be able to search for it.

 

I'm sure you've gotten the gist by the other responses, but just to answer your question directly: yes, even if you replace the tensioner, you are still going to need to be able to rotate the new one by using the two holes, either using the special tool or pliers as others have suggested.

 

Have you looked into renting the frequency tool? I've had friends who've done that, but I don't recall the name of the shop that rents them out.

 

Here are a couple of screen shots of the factory service manual:
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Looking at the vice-grips it's as Clint said "do you feel lucky ____???"

 

If that's what the factory manual suggests then that's what gets used on my car when the belts are done.
You don't crank down the grip so much that it'll crack the metal. You put just enough that it prevents the cams from turning.

 

Thanks for all the help and ideas.

The job is done yesterday. Well not quite. CEL came on and stated misfire on one side of the engine (one timing belt). The other side is ok.

I'm trying to figure out a trick to know which side timing is off because the code reader doesnt identify which engine it is. There's two ECUs in the 360 and code readers see two engines due to this. Im thinking of removing one ECU side and then running the code reader again to determine which side is off timing. Can I just disconnect one and run a code read? I won't start the vehicle and just going to twist the key on accessory mode to be able to read the codes again

Thanks guys!

 

removing an ecu and use an aftermarket scantool to do this is a bit too much.

I'd go to a dealer/indie with sd2/3 or leonardo. this will tell you which cylinder misfires and at what rpm and what temperature, easier for you to diagnose

 

Thanks for the advice but regular scan tools can tell which cylinder is misfiring its just not properly identifying which engine. Driver or passenger side ECU.

Plus I changed the belt so I know it caused the issue. I would agree with the recommendation IF it suddenly came up and no changes was done to the car.

Both timing belts were replaced and only one side is out of timing. I just need to know alternatives to diagnose which side timing belt is off. This is why I'm thinking of disconnecting one ECU side and then scan it again to identify which side timing needs to be adjusted without taking off both sides again.

I hope its possible to disconnect one ECU and read the codes. This will help identify which side.

Thanks in advance for the advice guys!

 

I was thinking,

first, it maybe inaccurate to use the scan tool to diagnose which side of the ecu was having the code. you know, maybe, just maybe.

2nd, if you really screw up with that side of the timing belt install, say, driver side, u need to re-degree the timing. For me I am not sure if that requires the 2 sides to be re-dgreed altogether or it is something can be done one side at a time. in case that has to be done both side in 1 sitting, checking which side u have a code is irrelevant.

so did you do your timing belt change the "mark and swap" style?

 

Did you mark cam pulley positions before lock & swab, and removing old belts? Then you should be able to just look at your marks to see if any side is off the mark. If you did not mark original position for later verification, and simply locked and swabbed, even if you figure out which bank is causing the CEL, how would you know how to adjust? And, how would you be certain that it is really off? Won't you just be shooting in the dark, playing Russian roulette, running the risk of causing serious damage?

 

Well almost. We forgot to mark the passenger side until it's too late. Im suspecting it's this side but wanted to be sure. Is there anyway I can cause another code on one side purposely to determine which side ECU engine is reporting the issue to know which side timing belt?

You brought up a good point. Is it even possible to adjust one side since the code reads one side is ok?

 

Take the rear cam caps off and get the motor to TDC and see which side is out.

 

That sounds like a good idea. Let me check the manual on how to TDC.

 

I figured out how to TDC per manual. The question I have now is can I just twist the auxillary belt to make it to rotate to determine the TDC? Per manual, it assumes that the auxillary belt is off and then suggested to turn the crankshaft pulley.

I'm hoping I can turn it without removing the auxillary belt. Thanks!

 

if you marked the drive side, then yea, must be the pssger side

i suspect that you can redegree timing on one side only

about triggering another code: what use is that? you'll only find out what is LH side or RH side by doing that, but to answer your qeustion, you can unscrew one of the o2 sensors I guess?