is the bubble due to burst?

I happen to have six aircooled P-cars at the moment so I'm not complaining but I share your mystification. Yes early 3.0 Turbo Carreras were produced in numbers comparable to 300SLs, but very similar descendants were manufactured in the tens of thousands. OTOH, I've thought the very special Porsches were mysteriously undervalued relative to period peers eg 904s. I think the shark was jumped on 'mass produced' sportscars when an E-Type Jag sold for >$500K. They made 75,000 of those…

 

What E-Type has been sold for that shocking amount?


Francesco

 

these are both a couple years old

Series I Jaguar E-type sets auction record at $467,500 | Hemmings Daily

and then there was a barn find for $170k Garage-find Jaguar E-type sells for $168,000 | Hemmings Daily

most Porsche's were mass produced; there's not that much difference between the high values for certain option coded air-cooled Porsche's and the muscle-car mania.

 

Amazing thread. It's taken me one week to read from the beginning on and off. Really interesting and great opinions.

I guess independent you bought your car because you liked it, because you invest, speculate or most probably a mix of those etc it's still intellectually appealing and challenging trying to pin down and predict the future behavior of prices.

Great comments and sad to learn some great posters 'retire' from 'value/price' threads as some of use learn a lot from these people.

 

Thank you for the links.

Back on topic, I doubt that muscle cars and aircooled Porsches phenomena can have anything in common. Porsches were "mass produced" compared to Ferrari of the same period, but we are still talking of 2,000 cars made per year (pre-bumpers series), at least on tenth of the production of the Mustang alone. And, of course, we are talking about cars light years distant from each other under every point of view.

 

be very careful of what you read here - most people don't have a clue. most posters have never purchased a Ferrari, and the some of the well informed posters use the forum for their personal benefit....they talk down prices when they have something to buy, talk them up when they want to sell something. Even in the equity and fixed income markets only a handful of people make money by trading - same with cars. buy what you love when you can afford it - and if its your goal to never sell them you will do just fine while everyone else spends time talking, debating, and pontificating.

And remember, for all those here who say the market is overheated and a bubble- why didn't they back up the truck in 2009 and 2010? go back and read the posts from end of 2008 to end of 2010 - there were only a handful of us talking about buying cars - there were only a handful of us who had our lists and cldnt find stuff to buy fast enough. Now all of a sudden we have dozens of people who have become no skin in the game market experts. Making money doing anything in life requires balls and brains. One doesn't suffice.

enough said.

 

Perfectly said.

 

I agree with what you say. I would also offer a counter point that many people in fchat are also not always so self-interested. I found a many genuine folks who gave me very helpful advice and useful information. I bought and sold a few cars from folks here as well. Some guys gave me a good deal on the cars below the market values and I also sold cars to other fchatters below the maximum I could have earned on some cars.

 

Does anybody know what the high bid for the BB 512 at Bonhams' Goodwood auction last weekend was?

 

totally - ive met some really good friends/people on the board

 

seems not to have sold.

 

If it is a No Sale high bid is meaningless.

 

I wouldn't say it's meaningless, doesn't the high bid mean that on that day the car was at least worth the high bid + commission? It's just that the seller wanted more on that day.

 

I think what 375+ is trying to say is that the high bid may well have been the auction house's own bids to try and get the car to meet the reserve price. In other words, there may not have been any real buyers in the room (or on the phone) and thus, the high bid in that scenario is indeed meaningless.

 

Sorry I always naively forget that there are shenanigans going on.
I stand corrected, it's meaningless.

 

Exactly. If there is a reserve figure in front of the auctioneer,then he can continue to take bids'off the wall' a meaningless exercise,but .who knows,someone MAY come in and put their hand up,and,with a bit of luck,someone who has a phone line booked may do the same. If that then arrives around the reserve(give or take 10%),you can bet the hammer will come down double quick! 15% from the buyer,10% from the seller,two minutes work, now thats the way to make money.

 

Not meaningless, auctioneer can bid on behalf of the consignor up to the reserve. In most cases it gives a good indication of the reserve.

 

What's the difference? If the reserve is fixed,and there are no bidders,he may as well move on....

 

.....makes the consignor feel better.

 

Most auction houses publish the high no sale price - it obviously looks better for them to have a higher price, even if the car doesn't sell

 

No bids
Late lot and no one left in the room
And no phones

 

512bb attached
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Pretty.

 

A lot of Daytonas coming up in Monterey, let's see if the market is saturated?!

 

Just seen the estimate for RM's Enzo to be sold at Monterey.

$4,000,000 -6,000,000.

Wow.