It seems the market has really changed

I would.

 

It's been a while since I read the book but the examples I remember were people living ridiculously below their means, dying and turning out to be multi millionaires. The people in the book seem to me to give up life experiences in favor of accumulation of wealth to pass on to their heirs/state.

To me there has to be a balance and that book swung way too much toward the ultra conservative side of the needle.

 

But, But its different this time.....

 

I think the title of this thread should be changed to that phrase!
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If I had the means I would buy in this market, no problem. For example an F40, F50 or GTO, even though these cars are at a high point, at least since the last bubble.

The point is, if you like something, buy and enjoy. You will probably be happy regardless of where the market goes.

But if you're buying for financial reasons, to make money, be careful. You might end up being pretty unhappy about the purchase.

-F

 

I haven't seen this thread in the last few day and find it very interesting.

In the famous words of that great philosopher, Rodney King, "Can we all get along?"

Everyone sees 'the market' from his own place on the economic spectrum. The problem arises when one person "projects" his view on the market, or other forum members, in general. I don't think the major participants in the last few days have vastly differing views. But if you want to throw rocks at each other, go ahead. It's fun to watch.

 

Sort of off topic here, but a few thoughts:

1. For the average Camry buyer, driving isn't an event anyway. Being able to enter your destination in an app and have the car chauffeur you will be the new normal.
2. Human-driven cars will probably fall out of favor due to higher insurance costs.
3. I doubt petrol-powered cars will be legislated off the road (legally that's hard or impossible to do -- even California allows us to drive cars of any age), but for most non car enthusiasts they will be viewed as an inferior product: too slow, too expensive to run, too expensive to service/repair.
4. For car enthusiasts, the notion of a faster Ferrari or Porsche that needs only tires, brake pads and batteries for the first million miles will be more enticing than the engine noise of the older cars. You will see Ferraris being driven with no concerns about the odometer, because odometers mean basically nothing in electric cars.

 

I agree. I love the old stuff and have always been a gear-head. But the electric car is here to stay this time whether people like it or not. Tesla has already re-written history and has a few chapters left I would imagine. I'm a passionate gear-head first then value-based buyer second. It's always good to wear both hats, IMO. It can save some stress down the road. I think the Model S is worth every penny of 80 grand. The price is out of reach to many, but just watch and see what happens when they have a car every good as the model S for the price of a Lexus or 5 series. There's going to be some serious action taking place when that happens. And it's coming in just a year or two. I'm either going to grab that model, or a used model S whenever they depreciate into the 40s and 50s. It's the best engineered and most advanced car on the road. The Model T all over again. And it will be quite cool driving into the gas station to buy a coke and leave. Until then I'm going to continue miling up my E38

 

Did not Tesla get a lot of support from the US Government?
In Europe many MB buyers are of the traditional kind, they do not want any newfangled drives. People like my dad. Or my wife's dad.

 

The cars Tesla makes are well outside the comfort zone of american auto makers, particularly in terms of price point. A GM, or a Nissan, or even a MB is going to want to mass produce a virtually guaranteed success in the millions based on decades of market research leveraging everything they know about their target demographics, right? Now MB, and Europeans, have diesel, do diesel well. We don't. If we were at all serious about reducing our carbon footprint on this planet, we'd be squeezing every BTU we could get out of each drop of petrol, at 20-1 compression.

 

Excellent points. I think there will still be sports cars and driving enthusiasts. But I also think for most people in most situations they will users of autonomous cars.

As for Tesla- what high end electric market. They are a pioneer. They are smartly run. They make a very nice product that seems to me they did a great job of figuring out where to put their investments and have a good start to a strong brand. From what I can tell they are making money from trading tax credits - so good for them. Not sure if they really break even on the cars but I would imagine at some point their business plan should do that. Do we care that the airlines don't really break even on their airfares (or at least they used to not) and they really made money off speculating on fuel prices? I don't knock Tesla- I think they do a nice job. Its not for me but a lot of people really like it.

Anyway, I think time will tell about the market. Buy what you can afford and you love and you'll be just fine.

 

I don't think Tesla took over the high end electric car market.

They created it.

None of the luxury manufacturers were making electric cars (other than a couple of one offs for test samples)

Life is good when you are first to market... but ask myspace how that worked out for them. (I am not a social media expert, infact I am not even on social media so this may not be the best example admittedly)

Also, Tesla has built less than a 100k cars... bmw sells 350-400k 5 series BMWs... per year... Tesla has a ways to go.

Also, other luxury car manufacturers make a profit and a pretty sizable one at that... There over valued stock also just took a pretty heft hit.

Now don't get me wrong. I think what they are doing is great. Someone needed to come in and shake things up and am rooting for them... I just wished they did it without a battery.

 

In many ways very traditional and conservative; ask them how they feel about Jews.

 

what happened to this thread?

Trying to get back on topic about the market - it has escalated along with the values of other inflated assets. I am looking to buy more cars because I feel more comfortable owning a classic car than stocks, bonds, real estate or just about anything else right now. The carrying costs of investing in cars are (much, much) higher than traditional assets, but they also bring far more enjoyment and quality of life. When (not if) the global market crash next, classic car values with crash with them, but at least I'll be enjoying my investment along the way. Consciously or subconsciously, I believe this is what's driving values so much higher right now.

 

It will be very interesting to see the effects of the china stock market crash, and the Greece thing effect this current market. Interesting times..

 

We feel the same about them as you feel about Blacks.
Edit: I see you live in Italy?
But you are not Italian as you refer to (supposedly fellow ) Europeans as "them"?

 

Whoa!! Wtf was that? Take it easy man. This is about cars, plastic, metal, rubber, fluids..nothing more. Simple man made junk at the end of the day. Just because they are expensive and look pretty, they at the core are no different the a honda in operation. Remember that..

 

Answering todd308.
I hate stereotyping. I refuse to be stereotyped. Most of us from Europe, just like most if you from the Americas, are liberal and educated in these things.

 

Dude
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I do not think the small Greece problem will affect much. China - might.

 

Well one thing is for certain. The whole theory on China buying used ferraris over here and shipping them is no longer relevant LOL. Looks like they're going belly up to me. I guess they didn't learn anything from us back in 2007