488 GTB (458 replacement)

Guys remember this is the first turbo engine to come from Ferrari in a long time and they seem to have done quite well. If any company can do it they'll improve on the sound of a turbo engine. I'm sure they aren't going to ignore thousands of customers who buy these cars for the engine music. In fact I'm getting my exhaust system upgraded on my 458 in 2 weeks, can't wait!!!!! But I have to admit the performance figures of the 488 make you want to drool.

 

The GT3 has the most power of the two (550bhp) and redlines at 9000 rpm. The GT2/GTE redlines at 6250 rpm and produces 464 bhp. If you ask me, the GT2 sounds the best and it actually screams quite a bit. I believe Trofeo has some vids in his Challenge seats thread of the GT2.

 

1) Mac did that once and it didn't matter to 458 sales. 0.00001% of 458 buyers could tell you the track time of their car versus any other.

2) People want to know their car if "fastest" only if they are interested in telling their buddies. It means nothing when you actually drive the car. NOTHING.

3) Lambo has Audi for "balance" and Ferrari has Fiat/ Alfa/ Maserati. Same deal.

The HP race is just a marketing gimmick. What they should be concentrating on is what makes a Ferrari different and better to drive than their competitors and forget meaningless numbers.

 

I'm sorry, you think the Cygnet diminishes the Aston Martin more than soap on a rope or fake ignition keys diminish the Ferrari brand? And do you really think that being out dragged in every video is not keeping Ferrari awake at night?

 

Well yah, but the reviews of the MP4-12C (great name btw ; )) were not great. So they got part of it right, but they missed some pretty key stuff. Supposedly their cars are a lot better now, so it is more dangerous because the reviews may not harp so much on the overbearing computers. If there aren't such glaring issues, than then the fight is closer. You also can't ignore the fact that the McLaren brand is not in the same league as Ferrari. So not only do they need to beat the champ, but they need to KTFO! ; )

Concur. But those people make up a huge percentage of Ferrari owners. Let's be honest, a lot of people buy Ferrari's for status, not to really drive them hard.

Not anymore. Once the IPO hits they are legally a separate entity. Yes, most of the shares are owned by Fiat, but it is not the same thing when it comes to emissions.

I agree 100% with the exception of these advanced systems and mappings. They can actually put the power down, but it requires a lot of technology. Even the new M3/M4/M5 struggle to put down less power than the 488. I hope, and believe really, that the next gen mid-engine Ferrari will be a CFRP car (like the i8), not aluminum frame. Or it will be a hybrid of both, which BMW is also doing (new 7 series). More power is stupid at this point; need to lighten the load. Which as you and others have pointed out, is what makes cars the most fun to drive. I just don't think the average supercar buyer knows that though....or has any track experience to understand the difference.

 

What is it with you dude? You just read part of a post and shoot off?

I said it is not *only* about McLaren - emissions is part of it also.

...and yes, the Cygnet is a Toyota iQ covered in garish "luxury" and sold for double the price that is a total embarrassment to Aston Martin.

I've never seen the Ferrari soap, got a link so I can buy some? Does it smell like 16 world championships?

 

Not to change the subject but I think its interesting seeing what Lambo plans to do. They claim they have absolutely no interest in turbo or hybrid. They claim they'll be sticking with NA engines while increasing HP.

I'm wondering how they can afford to do that with the tax penalties looming. They simply are that profitable for Audi to just shrug off such debt.

Am I wrong here? What do they know that Ferrari doesn't?

 

Maybe just 3 months after the first video of 488 doing straight faster than 650S, Mclaren will offer a free upgrade of the 650S and it will run faster than 488 in straight. Just like they did to MP4. Because it is so possible and cheap to add power in turbocharged engine. Then Porsche will come out with MK2, again it will also run faster. The Italia has never been better than these guys when it comes to straight race and numbers on paper, but it is the best selling of all because of the passion.

 

If your interested in straight line performance..ahem...
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When i left, you were talking about ferrari, mclaren, engines, and emissions. When i come back, you're still talking about the same thing. Dang. Listen, ferrari used turbos because of mclaren, not emissions. The Z51 stingray has a 6.2 V8 with 460hhp and 465 lb-ft and gets just 2 gm/km more c02 than the 488. However, the z06 with it blown engine that makes 650hp and 650 lb/ft, makes 340gm/km. I don't know if that has anything to do with compression ratio or not, but the Z51 stingray has 11.5:1 compression ratio, the speciale has 14:1, and the z06 has 10:1. Ferrari could have gone to about 5-5.5 liters and still got about the same hp as the 650s and still kept their c02 down. Heck, even the speciale makes 275 gm/km (with the optional stop/start) vs the 488's 260 (also with optional stop/start)! They could have just evolved the engine, made the vehicle lighter, and still put up a solid fight.

For comparison, if you're going to say that its because of the bigger engine is the reason why the 4.5 V8 italia and spider makes (with optional stop/start) 307-275gm/km vs the 488, the 991 gt3 makes 289gm/km with a 3.8 F6. Yes, even the 5.2 V10 huracan (290gm/km) makes less c02 than a 4.0 F6 gt3rs by 6gm/km. The 650s makes the same c02 as the speciale! You want to know something funny? When the 12c first came out and was getting its butt kicked with it's 592hp 3.8tt, the 458 speciale with it's 597hp 4.5NA-V8, was making 4 less c02 than a 12c. The last galladro spider perfomante was making 327gm/km, and the new huracan makes 290. That is 37 less, just by working on and updating the engine. The V12 vanquish makes 298gm/km with it's 6.0, while it's 4.8 V8 vantage makes 321.

They should have let the california take the turbo fall since they're only saving a measly 10gm between the two vs 15gm between the special and 488. I don't know how manufactures set their c02 scores, or how they vary so widely, but i still think they could have evolved the engine, lightened the body and still have been a worthy adversary.

Signing out, ciao.

 

+1

I mean +458.

 

Well yes. And the Audi R8 still has a na v10 in the new 2016 model. Same VW family. Not a coincidence but a matter of strategy. IMVHO.

 

50k premium has always been the go to number - Some may ask more but it does not get taken seriously

 

Someone mentioned straight line performance and acceleration being a big selling point. Whenever I see a video of a matchup where at least one car is boosted, the discussion is ALWAYS tainted by not knowing if the boost pressure has been increased with a simple and cheap software mod. This is not an issue with N/A engines as it is much harder to get reasonable performance gains with just a code change. After all, the reason why the 488 is faster than the 458 is solely due to the turbine. That's why it doesn't sit well with me. I'm sure the car is great in many aspects but modern small boosted engines are everywhere and are certainly not special. Go big or go home comes to mind.

 

Then don't get a 488.

 

+1
Great analysis about Carbon emission comparison!
I enjoyed your post.

 

Insieme le Ferrari 360 CS, 430 Scuderia e 458 Speciale

 

Excellent post and yes, McLaren are keeping Ferrari awake at night. It's a simple as that.

 

this is supercharged so sound is great, I wish Ferrari was supercharged

 

What's the difference between supercharged and turbocharged?

 

turbo is powered by exchaust gas that's why sound is bad, supedrcharched is powered by engine belt, turbo is more effective

 

Ah, got it. Thanks.

 

I don't get it. Ferrari makes the F40, everyone is amazed at the engine, the power, the performance. Now, they make a 488, and suddenly the very same type of powerplant is 'tainted'. Confused.... :/

 

In those days there were little to NO emission controls. Meant cat free exhausts - sounds better. Ferrari these days have two - which kills the sound.

 

Pretty sure my F40 had cats...