F1 gearboxes:white elephant of the future?

The issue is not DCT vs F1. It's would you rather have a 355, a 360/430 or a 458.

If I want a 355, then it's F1. If I want a 458, then it's whatever that car was made with.

I think most people will buy the car they desire, not the type of automatic gear box it might have in it.

To say people won't want a 355 F1 because it doesn't have some later technology is ridiculous. People buy the car, and driving experience, not the technology when it comes to old cars.

I also love timing throttle blips on F1 downshifts. Very "engaging"

 

dct does equal blips

 

It's not just the model - it is also the mission.

If I were to purchase a 355 or 360 and planned to track them frequently, then YES - I would likely opt for F1. Otherwise manual is the more appropriate choice in terms of a more visceral experience and lower maintenance.

Very disappointed exotic car makers have ditched the manuals. But, I feel it has more to do with very low driving IQ clientele than any performance improvements. How many people are taught to drive manuals these days?

I guess the Porsche Cayman GT-4 is the last of the new high-performance MT cars from a major exotic brand - I hope they sell zillions of them.

 

In Europe the vast majority are taught to drive Manual.
We can see straight away if a driver is a newbie at a Red light or an uphill start. They tend to jump like a Kangaroo!

On todays congested roads it is more convenient to drive an Auto of whatever design.
Even the German Autobahn with the free speed and all is congested.

 

Certainly not in the USA, unfortunately.

 

+1
I would not want to track the 7 speed sticks that are out now. Too easy to make mistake on down shift and there goes $30k.
A 991 gt3 with short throw 7 speed stick that has 4 or 5 vertical planes? No thanks

 

The vette 7 speed manual for instance is exactly the same ratios except it has an extra overdrive. Would be the same driving experience as a 6 speed on track.

 

When you take a street car to a track, it is rare to even get beyond 4th gear unless there is a pretty long straight, especially in a high power car, so downshifting from the 6th or 7th position never happens anyway.

Dave

 

Manually shifting an 8 speeder must feel like whipping cream.
I think it is crazy of manufacturers to do any gearbox with more than 5 plus reverse. An engine with a high torque needs less gears, not more. Sure, the engine can be kept at the optimum revs + torque level, but the time it takes to shift detracts from the acceleration time and so on.

My C300 has a manual 6 speeder. As soon as I reach about 45 Km/h the computer tells me I should have the 6th speed in. Bit pointless, going from second/third to sixth!


I read an article where Gertrag said the maximum number of forward speeds was 9, more than that they would need to use a High/Low extra gearbox

 

having all the vertical planes in a 7 speed makes a mistaken downshift from say 5 to 4 end up in 2nd instead. ive made that mistake few times but luckily realized before let up on clutch.

 

Porsche offers a 7-speed MT in their 911 4S.

The best drivers in the world use DCT on the track, of course. However, i was referring to non-professional buyers who get their cars at the dealer. The majority of these drivers are very low driving IQ, for the simple reason that today's exotics are so easy to drive, your grandmother could get in and drive them without issue.

 

Not in Europe. Driver IQ is pretty good there. Not only are they trained in Manual, also the roads are narrower, parking slots too.

 

If you're just using it to drive around town, you're doing it wrong.

 

Manually shifting an 8 speeder must feel like whipping cream.
I think it is crazy of manufacturers to do any gearbox with more than 5 plus reverse. An engine with a high torque needs less gears, not more. Sure, the engine can be kept at the optimum revs + torque level, but the time it takes to shift detracts from the acceleration time and so on.

+1
I believe the higher end hi torque cars are adding speeds so to not be out done by competing manufactures. Buy this car over that it has more gears etc. Or to increase there MPG with multiple overdrives. On another subject I know a few formula car racers that like the standard shift pattern over sequential gearbox because they can skip gears on slow corner down shifts. My DD is an Integra 5 speed, I never get tired of driving it. The shifting and clutch are very quick. But then again these are small gears.

 

There was an interesting statement made in an article appeared on Forza magazine a few months ago.
The writer stated the sudden demise of the manual in all Ferrari was actually caused by the dealers, who on the onset of the F 1 transmission feared the manuals would not sell equally well as the F 1 models in the used cars market.
As a consequence the orders received by the factory for F 1 transmissions greatly outnumbered what Ferrari had planned for it and eventually the factory dropped the manuals completely.
I do not know if this is true or not, but it makes sense, as when I inquired with the local dealer about finding a 612 or a 599 with a manual, the sales person stated he would not sell me one, as he was sure I would not be happy with it.
"They are terrible, needing constant calibration and adjustments" was the explanation.
The fact is that today those vehicles with the manuals command a premium over the F 1 !!

 

They might command a premium due to the rarity.

I do not think that buyers would be that influenced by a dealer. Most have a good idea what they want.

Most buyers want a Ferrari to drive/cruise and look good in. Maybe rev it a little bit at a Red Light.
People like on this Forum, that are true "Fcar Petrol Heads", are rare.

 

F1 might not be as big of an issue for Ferrari models, most models will remain very desirable and values going forward will remain higher than most any other car marque. Maybe not as high as three pedals or the newer DCT examples, but a Ferrari is always going to be a Ferrari.

However, F1 has already become a liability for the Maserati used market. The '02-06 Cambiocorsa Coupe and Spyder, and especially the Quattroporte, are headed toward parts car status. Considering a competent DIY mechanic doesn't really have a way to change the clutch without expensive Ferrari/Maserati software, going forward these will be $10,000 cars with a looming $5,000 repair bill when the clutch starts to slip.

 

That premium of MT over F1 is mostly due to rarity, which attracts greedy prospectors. Yes, there are definitely true enthusiasts who lament the demise of MT and also want them; but, that does not justify such a large difference in pricing.

The solution is for Ferrari to offer MT again in one of it's models. This would drive down the over-priced existing MT cars, be cheaper in price & maintenance for new MT cars, and please the enthusiasts.

 

How many 458 owners actually track their cars? On the track, yes, it makes sense. But, not on the open road, unless that person is physically challenged in some way.

On the open road, an enthusiast wants to be more connected to improve driving skills; as opposed to talking on their cell phone and looking cool in a plush comfortable fast car, whilst the car essentially drives for them. I have nothing against the later, but just want to see Ferrari make a raw car without the fluff for those who want them at a lower price point. This would not hurt their brand.

Of course, with current driving laws and so many distracted drivers, sport driving is becoming more and more improbable unfortunately.

 

I think the production numbers and the (frankly speaking) boring design is the biggest problem with Maserati.

I looked on buying a Maserati last year, but did not. For the above reasons.