450S #4505

Not wanting to set off anything too controversial but Rick Cole have announced they are selling a Maserati 450S and the pictures show a stamping of #4505.....

1957 Maserati 450S | Rick Cole Auctions

I am not connected with the seller in any way BUT I will be fascinated to watch this sale, if it sells and for how much cash money. I am assuming it's the same car offered by RM back in 2008?

 

Wow I as well am interested in this sale. Pretty car

 

Walter Baeumer knows all about it,......I'm begging Mr. B. please comment.........

 

Well, you can read what he thinks about #4505 in this TNF thread:

Maserati 450S 4505 - The Nostalgia Forum - The AUTOSPORT Forums

 

Good points all and I have read the Autosport thread BUT could it be the other #4505? BTW the RM catalogue description from 2008 is quite entertaining. A creative writing course could use the description as a good example.

 

This is probably the best thread on 450S and it finally straightens out the history of each car.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/maserati/387302-maserati-exhibition-4.html

 

1957 Maserati 450S | Rick Cole Auctions

The above web page now has the full lot description and it is confirmed as the entity known as '4505', it is with interest that I note the claim is that this car was sold to Temple Buell in 1957, raced a couple of times, Jim Hall (raced), John Edgar (raced), Crashed at Riverside, remains passed thru several owners to Joel Finn. Virgil Millette purchased in 1980 and after passing to Steven Forristall in 1986 it was totally restored by Mark Goyette with "much of the chassis and bodywork remade". Has full FIA papers etc.

I have read all the previous notes regarding #4505 & 4506 but will be interested to see the outcome of the sale regardless

 

Probably less than when it didn't sell in 2008 when there was a question of 4505 being restamped as 4506. Now that factory documentation has come out that it did happen. Case Closed.


1957 Maserati Tipo 54 (450S) | Automobiles of Arizona 2008 | RM Sotheby's

 

I have read that auction description as well. I was not aware there was actual factory documentation of anything, let alone the restamping of #4505 to #4506. Very interesting.

 

Timmy: I was responsible for much of the research in the above mentioned thread (Maserati exhibition). I have factory documentation and build sheets for most of the 450S cars. Neither 4505 or 4506 were ever involved in MAJOR crashes. 4506 was the only 450S crashed in the US, and it was repaired within a few weeks.

 

Thanks for your reply DWR46

So I take it that you have information that states
1 - 4505 became 4506 when sold to the USA?
2 - 4506 was not a newly built entity?
3 - If 4506 was built, what happened to that?
4 - 4505 as an entity is based on some original parts from other cars?

Feel free to answer my questions or not and I thank you in advance if you do so.

My romantic side always wants to believe that cars like #4505 are genuine but the cynical me says it is more likely to be some genuine parts fitted to a newly built chassis....

And I note that much of the information referred to in the lot description comes from a Joel Finn 1970s article for Trident. That's not exactly current nor well researched.

 

Here is a list of all the 450S'.

#3501 – 450S muletto (Works) – Swedish GP Aug 1956 DNS. Engine removed, chassis sold renumbered 3510 – present owner Genova, IT

#4501 – (Works) Previously unknown chassis completed Fall 1956. Argentina Jan ’57, wrecked May ’57 practice MM – destroyed.

#4502 – Parravano – present owner Switzerland?

#4503 –(Works)- present owner Pacific NW

#4504 – Kimberly – present owner USA

#4505 – (Works)- renumbered as 4506 sold to Edgar

#4506 – (Works) Costin Coupe temp assigned number #4501 for Le Mans June ’57 replacing destroyed chassis (May ’57). Converted for street use Renumber 4512 sold to Staver – present owner USA. #4506 reassigned to #4505 sold to Edgar. Present owner - Germany

#4507 – (Works) Wrecked Caracas Nov ’57 – destroyed

#4508 – Buell – present owner NY

#4509 – Rose – present owner NJ

#4510 – Harrison – present owner CA

#4511 – engine only presently in #4508

#4512 – Costin Coupe renumber from #4506 after temp assigned #4501.

A total of 11 chassis’ carried 450S engines from the factory, not counting Tipo 151, Tipo 65, Eldorado etc.

 

Timmy: Italiancars in Post #12 tells the whole story.

 

Thanks guys.....

 

So where it fits the 4505 that its coming up to auction?

A reproduction with original parts?

Bests,

N.

 

Nschots: When I inspected the car some years ago, it had what appeared to be an original engine. The original number had been ground off and "4505" stamped on a different area in an incorrect font. Other external engine stamping's were present and appeared to be original.

 

DWR46, thank you very much. So after this, the confusion is bigger! But def., not the Works car, 4506. Seem to be some what i call, "a salad", a little of this, a little of that, but after all, nice to see.

Let´s see how it does at auction.

Thank you,

N.-

 

Not to be a 450S snob or anything. But if you have ever been around a real one, they are much more muscular and curvasous. The body on this car for lack of a better word is more flat.

 

A comparison
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Just to clarify, the other stampings I was referring to were on the ENGINE, not on the frame.

 

Probably a Marine engine, the question I always wondered is what happened to engine #4508?

 

Having read Walter Baumer's must have book on the 300s, made in period, I must proclaim that all Maserati bodies were hand built by Fantuzzi in the late 1950s & early 1960s and were very much unique within the boundaries of an overall longnose/ shortnose/ longtail/ shorttail spec.

Just my 2c.