Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

Where would he race its thirsty V12 competitively on a stage befitting his company?

Times have changed.

 

Its a pity. Although, I think the 599XX would have pleased him as well - just nothing with embarrassing electric motors though.

 

If Enzo thought an electric motor would help him win, he would have probably put two of them in his cars.

 

Except that they didn't exist in his lifetime. He always said that the best Ferrari was the next one....

 

That was my point. He would have likely embraced electric motors as they are today if they helped him win. I doubt he would have been overly nostalgic about the 'good old days' to the point that he would refuse to use electric motors.

 

The next one...Hummm ...noise conforming with 68 db should be a "real problem !!!
V12 Hi-fi sound Inside isn t so far !!!

 

Yes, I understand that he was the consummate competitor hungry for the win. However, at some point the game changes and you just feel old and out of place. When things turn all electric that will be it for me. I do wonder what my Dad would think of my F12 if he were alive today. His tour of duty was on aircraft carriers working on P51 Mustangs with their Merlin 12 cylinder, two-staged supercharged engines. As I recall, the later jet engines made the planes go like stink but he had no interest in them. Looks like the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

 

Very nice reflections.

 

Or perhaps he didn't understand jets. As you seem to not understand that a V12 & electric power is a great thing. We are not talking Priuses here.

 

+1

 

Did your Dad serve on the USS Shangri-La? A brief test programme on this carrier was the only time P51's were aboard carriers. the US Navy preferred radial engined aircraft such as the Hellcat and Corsair. The Royal Navy did use Merlin engined Hurricanes and Seafires (among several other types of Merlin powered aircraft) but never Mustangs.

Mustang! - Documents

 

I once had the "pleasure" of hitching a ride in a 2-seat Mustang (the P51 variety). You want engine noise? Unbelievable. I think it cost me a good chunk of my hearing. But if you believe that machines have animate qualities this one gave the impression that it was looking around for something to strafe. (LOL)

 

Someone sensible will bring this thread back to the F12 VS.............in the meantime:

I was lucky to fly several times on Concorde, I once had a B-52 fly over my head at around 2K feet while on holiday in Miami, and I've seen two F-4 Phantom's have a mock strafing attack where I could see the faces of the pilots so low were they. And in every case I've felt an overwhelming sense of wonder.

But when the Battle of Britain memorial flight occasionally flies over my house and I hear six glorious merlins and see a Spit, Hurricane and Lancaster flying in formation or I see at an air-show a Mustang, I have an overwhelming sense of joy.

 

That's an excellent point.

I don't think we should be too snippy with our comments. We all have our opinions and biases and beliefs.

Mine is this car is a very big deal. I think it will be seen as the last extreme limited NA V12 model from a company whose name is synonymous with NA V12 motors.

The future will bring even better cars, but I think this one will be seen as a bookend/ milestone car.

Maybe that doesn't come to pass and this is just another amazing V12 from Ferrari.... neither scenario is too bad!

 

Pretty sure the next V12 will still be normally aspirated (i.e. won't have forced induction). The car will use some electricity to assist it in certain situations. IMO it's misleading to say the F12 is the last of the normally aspirated V12 Ferraris.

 

+1

 

All I can tell you is I'm not misleading you. I've said what I believe to be true. I could be wrong- and in this case I would be happy to be wrong. But as of this moment I am convinced I am correct.

 

I wish so too, but I am afraid that Caeruleus is correct and if you just look at the weight issue which he posts on the VS values thread, you will the problem. Furthermore, the hybrid technology is still not reliable enough for a production car, nor cheap enough by a long chalk. Add in the need for Ferrari to make more and more profits as a listed company and a smaller displacement twin turbo V12 is the way to go. It ticks all boxes from emissions, cost, weight performance and the mere fact that the Cali and 458 have gone that route is a sure sign to the future. What happened when they ran out of development room on their V8?

Furthermore, just like with the 458 and its V8, it is clear they are close to the max with the current n/a V12, so how do you expect them to make the same massive gain in power that exists between the 599 and F12 in the next model.

Trust me, it will, very unfortunately be turbo and this is born of more than the above logic.

 

I too STRONGLY believe you to be correct ...

 

If that is the case then 599GTO and F12VS prices will go through the roof!

 

Unfortunately I think the scenario of a TTV12 for the F12 replacement is making too much sense to ignore. I will bet however on another round of the 6.3L NA V12 for the FF-M. After that it is game-over.

 

How is it possible to produce a better car without sound. Just after mid 2016, intake exhaust valve will be prohibited for new cars type. 68 db will be the max for sport cars !
It s a real problem for Ferrari much more than turbo or hybrid engines;
Do you really want a bose system behind your seat with an artificial sound coming from a cd ?

 

Ferrari have been briefing journalists pretty hard that they won't do a twin turbo v12, lots of talk of using a 48 volt supply for the electrics instead of the usual 12v

Ferrari?s V12 plans revealed: no turbos, electric assistance coming by CAR Magazine

All Future Ferrari V12s Will Be Hybridised - autoevolution

Ferrari to keep naturally aspirated V12 engines | Autocar

 

No NA means no great sound. Good way to alienate your tifosi


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When time comes for Ferrari to put electric motors instead of turbo-charged engines people will hate electric, and celebrate turbo