Did the Bubble burst?

I think you are on to something. When I started looking in April, there were a good number of mid milage cars in the upper 40's lower 50's. That kept going up, I eventually paid $60 but I'm very happy with the deal (85, euro, all original, 30k miles). Now I hardly see anything under $60k and not nearly in as good condition & US spec, but I agree it doesn't seem that they are moving as much at that price, at least in that condition! Interesting to see what will happen & what other people think.

 

Maybe, but I just noticed Mike Sheehan sold a 328 GTB that was listed for $120,000 and a 328 GTS that was listed for $90,000 ......not bad numbers if you ask me.

 

For sure great numbers. I haven't followed 328 as much, just seems that prices aren't climbing as aggressively as the beginning of the year.

 

I agree. It seems that things have settled down for now for most cars, not just 3X8s. I mentioned this in another thread, and a couple of people who were attending Monterey said prices were very strong. I wasn't there, but the prices realized that I saw on TV didn't seem that strong to me.

 

I think they were climbing steadily but then people started asking stupid prices. $75,000 for a two valve? At this stage? Seriously? And I own one. I think a lot of Buyers finally just said, " hold on a minute ." Not everyone bought into the hype and hysteria of get them while they're hot. 2cts.

 

I think there has been a recent flood of 3x8s on the market with many sellers listing to reap the benefits of their quick increase in value. However, buyers can now afford to be picky. The price on mid to higher mile models or non-stock models has definitely stalled and perhaps decreased. There is a lot of 'junk' out there. However, at a selling price of over 55-65K, the sellers have still profited; they have likely realized a 10-20K profit. Nice example 308 carbureted cars are still sought after as are 308 and 328 GTBs. Nice examples of 88.5 and 89 328 GTSs are also bringing high dollars. The Vetroresina seems to be the Holy Grail and bring in strong money. If I were to buy a car to sock away, drive occasionally and enjoy it's beauty with the thought of a value increase, it would be a Euro spec carbureted 308 GTB.

 

Veso,
If you had to sell today your 85' well documented 30k+ mile car how much would you ask for? I assume much more than $60k. So what does that tell you about the market? The clean and well documented cars with all records, books and tools will demand premium prices. The asking prices that you see now on average condition high mileage cars are the same prices that you would see a couple of years ago on great condition low mileage cars. As the great condition cars become more rare, the prices of the average condition cars will start climbing. It's a matter of time.

 

You are right, I guess I just wonder what these 58k mile cars that are asking over $60 are actually bringing in. I looked at on outside of SF a few weeks ago, guy wanted 60k didn't have original wheels and a ton of dents. He insisted he wouldn't take less. Just one example.
I'm all for prices going up now that I have mine

 

But naturally I do wonder what mine is worth now...

 

^ I agree. There's a bunch of 3 or 4 grade cars hanging around with ever reducing prices, but the nice ones are listed/sold very quickly... if they're listed at all and not sold by word of mouth. And look at the strong prices for "rarer" cars like early no cat GTBs or Glass cars. I don't see them pulling back. In fact, they seem to continue edging upward from the sale records published and auction numbers. The nice thing about the flood of profiteers is the nice cars really stand out in a sea of average or below, and to that end they bring the money they deserve.

 

I think if you paid $50-something for a good driver, serviced QV in the past year, you didn't make a mistake. Not at all.

But again, that 50-something is still not keeping up with inflation over the past 20 years. I paid $34,500 for mine in Sept 1997 which was pretty much in the middle of the typical asking price then.

Someone adjust that 1997 $34,500 for inflation and tell me what that is today.

 

Uh...am I missing something...when the bubble grows, the prices go up. When the bubble bursts prices go down and there is grief, pain, sorrow and murder.

 

328 GTS cars seem to be going in the $75-$85K range with 25-35K miles, they are still climbing but at a slower rate.

 

If this helps....I just sold a 86' 328 GTS ...Clean, all work service history, All original, Excellent working Condition, AC blows cold .60K miles, but the Car was well taken care of and shows like it has much less miles.....I Sold it in ONE DAY, on F chat, for just south of 60,000.00.....The basically looked like a new car....I think Condition is MUCH MORE important than Miles....just my 2 cents.. Yeah, I could have ask more...but I've been watching the market Also...I didn't want to answer 100 phone calls...I wanted to Move the car...you price it right, they'll sell.

Call me old Fashion...but if a car sits for months and months...guess What..Its Priced to High!! ....Anyway, I loved my 328, but found myself driving the 430 more...430 spider has a gated 6 speed manual, or otherwise I would have kept the 328 also....I love "shifting"

 

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Another factor (in my opinion)

These cars are clearly loved by their owners which puts a price on them not necessarily reflective of the market because of the rarity. I think some owners "fish" with high prices with the idea that they really don't want to sell, but if they can get $90K for 308 they may have bought for $30K ...sure! But they love it...so downside (not really) they keep it. I thought about doing that myself.

Given how difficult it is to chase these cars around as a buyer (unless you have tons of time) you always can pull a really high price as sometimes people just get tired of the chase and want to pull the trigger.

Also, I don't know much about auctions, but I am guessing it is dependent on someone loving and wanting a Ferrari to be present. I have watched Meechum and they seem to be mostly vintage muscle cars with some exceptions. Don't these lower auction prices reflect that potentially the Chevelle guys whom attended, simply weren't that interested and the buyers who would be just didn't connect?

 

I would agree with that. A member on here contacted me not too long ago and asked if a price was fair. I told himthe market is screwed up at moment and I have no idea what a good price is since the range on a 308 seemed to be $35k to $115k. I watched two 2Vi cars sell recently that seemed comparable one sold for $38k and one for $46k. That is a huge difference in price for essentially the same car.

 

$51,300 Tommy.

Inflation Calculator: Money's Real Worth Over Time | Coin News

 

Things are cooling a bit across the board. That's not a bad thing. The run up was too fast.

And yes, there is now more on the market. In this situation buyers can be choosy and patient. They have to be, there's some junk out there.

But the market for a good 328 GTS (no BS) is around $90k. I don't think really good (no BS) 328 GTS can be found for $75k, unless perhaps the mileage is above 50,000, which is no big deal.

The market for a good pre-88.5 328 GTB is at least $120,000 as seen in the recent and relatively quick sale by Mike Sheehan of a 1986 328 GTB with an asking price of $119,950.

-F

 

Your observation seems to be correct based on this AutoWeek article:

Monterey auctions see $393 million in sales -- the first decline since 2009 | Autoweek

Also, the recent carnage in commodity (oil, gold, coal, etc.) markets seems to be spilling over into "stuff" (classic cars). Plus, this week's action in the stock market may be causing car buyers to look askance at their IRAs and 401ks and question whether a new toy can be justified now.

 

Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking. In other words, a QV isn't actually worth a dime more than they were 20 years ago.

 

+1

People saw values going up and a lot of people decided now was the time to sell. I agree completely that now with more cars available buyers can be picky and they aren't worried that if they don't buy "Car A" they will be losing out on a great car if someone else buys it before they make a decision.

In the end good cars sell for good money. These are still desirable cars and they are all still worth a hell of a lot more than the were a year or two ago.

 

I had heard that one of the 308/328s that did not sell, was brought in for the auction very early in the day and almost no one was there to bid on it.

 

Correction: there is a LOT of junk out there, cars that were bought, thrashed and trashed, sold and resold and never taken care of in the '80/90s/2000s.

I would never use e-bay as price guide, or as place to buy a car, everything I have looked at on e-bay (not F cars, I already have one), has problems, usually hidden, and most knowledgeable people know that also.

Tier 1 and tier 2 cars will get good $$, crap won't. Either a pristine original, well maintained car, or one that has higher mileage, but has been maintained/restored, maybe motor rebuild, new correct upholstery, new paint, will get good $$.

The good part, is, if you take the car you paid $30K for and put $50K into it to make it really nice, you should get all your money back, plus some.

I think carbed cars will do the best and stay the strongest as they are simply more collectible.

Doug