The stupidity of the penalty system exposed

Combined 55-place penalty for McLaren

Combined 55-place penalty for McLaren


"Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso will start the Belgian GP from the back of the grid as they have earned a combined penalty of 55 grid places.
Honda arrived at Spa this weekend with engine upgrades that required new parts to be fitted in both McLarens.
As such Button is taking an eighth turbocharger and MGU-H, while he is also using a seventh ICE and MGU-K.
Alonso, meanwhile, is onto his seventh ICE, turbocharger and MGU-H. The double World Champion is also using a sixth MGU-K.
Button's penalty is equal to a 25-place drop while Alonso's is 30.
Good news for McLaren, though, is a rule change means they will just start from the very back of the grid and won't take in-race penalties as well."




Really, you couldn't make it up ...

 

Insanity.

 

"In race penalties" were stupid, I agree.

But, with this "rule change" they're in the clear going forward; It's not like they're moving far back after all!

Again, remember though, this is what the stakeholders wanted. Do a better job and you won't get penalized.

Here's the current state of play:

So, it seems the others are pretty much managing to stay within the rules they wrote..... Why should Mcsplutter be granted any exceptions?

Do a **** job, you should expect a **** outcome.

It's hard, get yer heads down and do a better job.

Cheers,
Ian

 

They should start in the parking lot : )

But would should McLaren even care? At this point they are just doing in-season development really; minus what is frozen by the token system.

 

Of course, Ian, you may rub your hand with glee; your favourite pet hate -McLaren - is caught in a technical snare it has very little chance to escape in the near future.
Sure, Honda and McLaren could to better and were caught by their own petard approving such stupid rules, apparently.
For some, it's good apparently to kick a man when he is down, right?

To me, regardless who they hit (it could be Ferrari, remember) giving grid penalties distort the grid. That's not what F1 is about, I think.

These penalties for technical failures makes qualifs and the race a complete shambles.
Not good for the paying public, I would have thought...
Unless they are all called Fast_Ian?

Maybe Honda can't, but if I was Carlos Goshn, I would tell Renault to stop developing immediatly, and pull out at the end of next year. The game is rigged...

 

You need to understand WHY these penalties are in place. These are the most expensive engines ever. To approve such cost, the team's wanted limits imposed on teams of how many engines they could use without penalty. This would encourage everyone to use less engines.

If the Honda were actually fast, perhaps the rules shouldn't of made an exception, but given they are back of the grid anyway, I don't think others on the grid really care.

 

I do understand why these rules were implemented, but it's not only the number of engines that is limited, but their development.

In other words, if an engine manufacturer didn't get it right first time, it has to carry a handicap in development for ever.

That seems daft to me, and not what F1 is supposed to be about.

 

Engine makers wanted to showcase technology that would break the teams if they replaced an engine every race. Teams agreed on a rule to try to avoid this. They knew what they were getting into.

Honda is footing the engine bill for Mclaren, so they can somewhat afford it, The grid would shrink drastically if all the customer engined cars had to shell out for an engine every race.

 

I know all this, but it doesn't make it right, does it? This "cost saving" lark is becoming silly.

Before, they use to change engine at each GP, and between qualifs and race.

Who ever said F1 was going to be cheap?

If the FIA really wanted to keep costs down, it would have devised simpler engine rules: like 3-litre atmo. Those were really tested and needed no gimmicks.

 

I don't agree.
When the engine rules were for 3-litre atmo, anyone could buy truly tested Cosworth DFV at affordable price and go racing.

There were so many teams and cars that each GP needed pre-qualifs to reduce the field to 24 cars. Sometimes, there were 36 cars entered!!!

Make engines affordable, and there will be more teams. That's the role of the FIA.

Spectators come to watch a race, not a competition between technical teaams.

 

+1

 

Yep, get rid of all the economy BS, proper engines, testing in season, and f1 will really be the best formula. At the moment it's a sham of itself. Virtually guaranteed results every week, the only interest coming from whether one or the other merc driver will hit the other with his handbag...... Boring boring boring

 

So, you would rather see a spec engine across all teams, than a variety of engine designs and manufacturers? Maybe a setup like NASCAR, where crankshaft rotation, valve weight, piston weight, dimensions, which bank of cylinders of the V is in front of the other in the chassis, firing order, etc.

Eh, I'd rather keep F1 and NASCAR different, and F1 and spec open wheel series different.

The engine rules will be driven by the political climate of the cash laden engine builders. F1's engine is simply a reflection of the world, change the world, you change F1.

 

The limitations on engine use was brought in under the guise of cost saving, but it was also brought in to prevent teams such Mercedes and Ferrari from simply fitting a brand new engine for every race weekend to gain an advantage.

The problem with the new penalty system in place now, whereby the maximum penalty is being sent to the back of the grid, is that once you've been penalised and sent to the back of the grid, then that's it, you're now free to change whatever you want because you know you'll not receive any further penalty.

So if you're already towards the back of the grid anyway (as McLaren tend to be) and getting the maximum penalty already, the qualifying session is just going to be an extra free practice for you as there's no point setting a time for the grid, and you get to fit a completely new engine/power unit for every race.

At least with the previous system there was a penalty in place that stopped teams changing everything regardless once they were at the back of the grid.

Were the penalties fair?:

Yes they were!

Every other team/power unit manufacturer works to the same rules and regulations and they've managed to make powerful and reliable power units to avoid getting penalties.

Why shouldn't a team/power unit manufacturer be punished every race for failing to do the same?

Why should McLaren/Honda not be punished further than just starting from the back of the grid when they've completely failed to meet the criteria for power units as set out by the FIA?

So far they have used almost twice as many power units this season than the rules allow (and are still lacking performance and reliability!), and it seems the new rule is giving them free reign to just throw engines at the car every race! - That can't be right!

As far as I'm concerned, the new punishment simply doesn't fit the crime!

 

I'm not, nor have I ever, except with tongue firmly in cheek, "rubbed my hands in glee" regarding the **** they're currently in.

I'm almost (but not quite! ) feeling sorry for them right now.

They all agreed on the regulations, and in fact have been given something of a reprieve with the elimination of drive thru's. Honda can treat the remainder of the season as a big test session. I'd actually like to see them get their act together.

They made their bed.......

Cheers,
Ian

 

And this...is supposed to make F1 feasible for manufactures..

 

The cost saving aspect is nonsense. The teams are still complaining about budget this
and budget that.

What a team throws away in food from their hospitality at each race could probably feed
a family of four for a year, let's get real.

F-1 needs to bring BACK the days of 1) qualifying engines, 2) engine developments which
was the norm with manufactures updating engines several times throughout the season
and 3) back-up cars in every garage and 4) stop with all the draconian crap and let the
F-1 teams be F-1 teams.

Grid penalties, engine tokens, all this stuff, who came up with all this? Honda takes
steps to develop its engine and they get penalized for it? Would F-1 rather see them
struggling at the back of the pack the entire year or see them competitive?

Teams that get into F-1 know full well the expense involved. If they can't take it, step
aside and let someone else in.

BHW

 

So the teams should be allowed to flout the rules and regulations regardless without any penalty at all then? - How does that work?

 

Nearly all those rules for NASCAR are down to the clever interpretation of the rules by one man: Smokey Yunick - his books make great reading of how things were in the 60's and 70's, no computers or huge budgets just bright ideas. Just as things were for F1 then and should be now.

John

 

I couldn't say it better.

 

May I remind you that the Cosworth DFV was never a specs engine, even if 95% of the field adopted it; Ferrari, BRM, Eagle and some more (Alfa, HART, Tecno) also existed.

But it was a reliable cheap engine that allowed teams to compete on equal footing.

The Cosworth DFV period was maybe the best era of F1!

I forgot to say that no car maker was there to dominate then ....

 

So, what punishment do you suggest?

McLaren sentenced to be on the back of the grid for every GP NEXT YEAR perhaps?

Or maybe McLaren should be expelled from F1?

The present system is unworkable, and McLaren and Honda are demonstrating how ridiculous it is.

Would yhou take that stance if Ferrari - the Love of your life (sic)- was in the same situation?

 

If the rules and regulations are stupid, just change them, instead of unjustly penalising some teams and damaging the sport.

Can you imagine athleticism, cycling, rowing or even football carrying on like this?