Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

They will have to position other cars one peg lower than LaFerrari. The next F12 will probably have a detuned La powertrain with the electric motors and all.

 

Not a fan of the rendering......

 

I don't think so. I stand by what I said before- the weight of the car with this system would be a good 500 (or even 600?!?) lbs more making the curb weight really unacceptable. I hear they have had an absolute nightmare of a time with the system in the LF. The development and warranty costs on a wider scale would be the stuff of nightmares for a company which is more about the IPO right now. I stand by what I said before- the F12 successor will get a twin turbo V12. The whole range will be turbo and now we hear the FF successor won't even get the 12. It will be a turbo V8. My speculation is that means they can move the F12 successor higher in price and the FF successor lower in price and also this will help reduce fleet emissions- which as an independent company is now a major issue for Ferrari.

Pure conjecture but the 70th anniversary of the company is coming up in 2 years. And we hear a rumor they will do a special model with production of 1,947 (cute). Perhaps they will use the LF CF tub and build a model that sits just below the LF this would further reinforce the LF as the supercar.. That car could take a petrol motor plus electric assist system because of the weight savings on the vehicle structure.

Aluminum structure vehicles like all the production Ferraris are just too heavy for such a system.

 

Interesting if correct although 1947 is pretty high volume for a high priced car like the La ferrari I doubt they have built that many F12s to date.. or not much more then that..
I could certainly see a market for a V8 4 seater like the FF for less $$$ and then leave an F12 type vehicle as the only NA V12 and the DINO as aV6 turbo to counter balance...sounds like a very likely scenario

 

The comparators for about 2000 cars would be the 430 Scud/458 Speciale which conveniently fits into the production cycle for the 488 Scud/CS/Speciale equivalent

Now as to 70 cars (for 70th birthday) that's a whole other kettle of fish.......maybe a super LaF or even an ultra hybrid F12 altho that role might be taken by the F12VS next year

 

Well, time will tell who is right.

 

Yes only time will tell, I still think more likely the hybrid way than the turbo on v12, cause Felisa said that for v12 is necessary a quadriturbo to have a proper gain, but this solution would weight too much and need a lot of space, so the next years will be plenty of interesting and exciting surprises from the prancing horse

 

Felisa is history. It will be a turbo V12 for every logical reason debated here.

 

I am quite sure that F12 sucessor should be a lot higher priced. (except when deep in global recession)

Would help keeping F12 depreciation reasonable.

Any one remembers 599 resale in % of sticker 3 or 4 years after introduction?

 

Honest question mate: Is that your guess or do you happen to know something the rest of us don't? I value your opinion, that's why I am asking. Cheers.

 

Ferrari going with turbo V8s, hybrid V12s

Expect more turbo V8s and hybrid V12s, Ferrari says | Autoweek

Ferrari to keep naturally aspirated V12 engines | Autocar

 

Great sources! You also believe that the F12 is a hybrid as many published sources do or a non limited edition car with 760HP as Autocar does?

 

Uff if it will really be turbo going forward I better make money faster otherwise will never be able to order a new v12 (on second thought any new car) from Ferrari, no interest in turbos unfortunately

 

I think the F12M will remain non hybrid but a more powerful V12.But the
eventual clean sheet design will go radical with a new V12 hybrid combo
But that's 5 years away.I believe you will see a car with a much more
sportier character and will have a significantly lower CG. That's the chatter
I've gotten from the net over the last few months- Seems plausible to me

 

Ok Felisa may be history, but it's not the only good engineer in Ferrari saying that, and the company KNOWS its souls is related to v12 NA so I will bet that at least the next new model in 2018 or about will be NA, in fact probably when all Fcars will get turbo mandatory, they will maintain only v8 and v6, non sense for a v12, just look at koenigsegg that has a 5.0 outperforming bugatti W16 8.0...maybe I'm wrong, just my 2 cents

 

I think if you start thinking in terms of power unit as per f1 than cylinders may become a redundant classification in the future. No reason to see cylinders and gears go the way of manuals and wind up windows.

With the amount of software getting into cars, soon we will be talking about tuning programs instead of modifying engines��

 

No, but him and LdM were undoubtedly the guiding light behind Ferrari's product line-up for the past few decades.

With talk that Marchionne could take the CEO role at Ferrari - nothing is sacred on the product side. I fear the product front - Marchionne is a numbers guy rather than a car guy.

However our bias is too firmly rooted in the past & the present. Times change and the company must change with it - like it or not. Porsche has managed to expand its business and profit dramatically from near bankruptcy and builds exceptionally good cars yet still manages to keep the loyal 911/GT3/918 following happy. I don't think we realise what a small proportion we represent of the overall marketplace for Ferrari. And all this still has to work within more and more onerous emissions controls. What choice do they have?

 

I vote on V12 Hybrid: it does not make any sense not to amortize the sunk cost of the hybrid power plant technology across multiple models.
Furthermore let's not exclude hybrids because of the added weight: 1) battery density is improving; 2) electric motors are getting smaller; 3) aluminum structures can be made competitive in weight to CF - see Aerospace industry where aluminum-lithium is competitive to CF in weight and structural properties.

 

Dangerously off topic but picking up your point Simon, I went to a Google presentation where Eric Schmidt spoke.

Firstly, he's deeply impressive, and with a mind the size of a planet. But I came away thinking they see the automotive sector as a big money earner. I understand Google already has clearance to sell motor insurance in 50% of the states in the US. With their huge amount of data and their analytics capability, they have the ability to write very profitable insurance. Surely it's only a matter of time before they take on insurance market.

Add to this their view (with good reason) that humans are incapable of rational thought so are the cause of congestion in our cities. Automation is their answer to everything; automated cars means optimised traffic flow, means more vehicles less congestion.

Add to this about 80 billion dollars sitting in the bank providing massive firepower.

Add back the massive insurance (car and home) market facing possible disruption and my two cents is that Google's interest in driverless/automated cars isn't just a "what if" project.

When people are next attacking Sergio about the future of Ferrari, or debating the future of Ferrari's engines, remember what he and they are up against. Game-changing competition from huge organisations outside his peer group. Look how VW, BMW and Daimler took the radical step recently of joining forces to buy HERE in order to compete against Google.

I look at threads like for example about the new F12 VS and the delightfully random comments that go with it, as something we're very lucky to have. Because the advance of technology and how it affects everything is not Darwinian.

 

That's your hope, Ferrari turbocharging the V12. But it won't happened. It is completely pointless for Ferrari to develop a brand new engine for such a low series production cars, especially if they are this close to an IPO, such a waste of money would not look good on the bottom line.

Hybridizing the existing V12 is cheap and easy. Even the weight is not as much of a problem as you might think. It doesn't matter if they had major problems with tuning the hybrid system on the LaFerrari, that was done and the knowledge gained which cannot be unlearned.

Remember with the 488 coming onto production and the Cali T, the vast majority of Ferrari's production are in 'fuel saving' V8TT, the limited number of F12 and FF they make each year with the gas guzzling V12 doesn't make a whole lot of difference, a mild hybrid system is all that's needed to bring them down to fuel consumption target. Hell, they could keep them as NA V12 for longer than you think if they cut the production number there.FF is always the slowest to move and people are used to waiting months for a V12, what's another couple of weeks.

 

Definitely. If you look at what Google, Apple, Tesla are doing than you realise software is playing a bigger part in cars. Driverless cars need to interact with real time information from multiple sources to function. Lexus came out with the hover board. BMW just committed to 100% electric line up by 2025. Koenigsegg are not using gears anymore. Ferrari have their work cut out for them but they have an amazingly strong customer base and the passion for them is super strong around the world.

It's not like they are in a bad position to embrace and create the future. I think the Cali t is a stone cold stunner for what it is. The f12 is timeless. The f12 vs looks super interesting. The LaFerrari is epic. The 488 gtb is super interesting. They are in great place. I also think the ff successor should be under the f12 in terms of price which makes a v8 ff successor really interesting.

 

Would success of Google's driverless/automated cars negate the need for their auto insurance product?

 

paradox

 

How did we get off topic on this car to speculating of future engines and autonomous driving?!

 

So .. what are the latest Inside Infos/rumors/specifications about the launch ?

IAA is in a few days...