Will there be a F12 "HGTE" Announced at Frankfurt in September?

Some People in this thread confirmed it won't be at Frankfurt, but before than Geneva, maybe at bologna motorshow or at detroit/ other events

 

Coorect, not at Frankfurt. Correct before Geneva. Not Bologna, not Detroit.....

 

Finali mondiali

 

Peter is always weel informed and I will make an effort to respect the secret about date and wait with patience, however, Finali Mondiali will be again at Mugello circuit this year, not too far from my home , and I really want to go there for teh first time and see all you guys with XX, challenge, F1 clienti etc, so if Massimo can confirm that the public premiere will be in there in november, I have one more reason over the thousands to absolutely partecipate.

 

In today's FT there's an ominous piece about the sharp decline in luxury car sales in China. Will be fascinating to know just how many VS Ferrari propose to build and at what price.

 

We know the price and I suspect they will reallocate from China primarily to the U.S. as I hear dealers there are anticipating a second round.

 

Yay! I've never turned down sloppy seconds!


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Hilarious hope you get your VS Steve

 

You have some good and interesting points here... The FF is now rumored to be going turbo V8. So develop turbos for V12 or keep with this hybrid system V12? Thats the question. Turbos are a matter of developing a new setup- true. But hybrid would be either a massive weight problem- I disagree here that it is not such a problem- or it would entail such changes to the existing LF system that it would constitute a new system with the associated development costs. Whats more, they can keep problems with the electric system in the LF better underwraps- have we seen that widely reported in the press? No. But on a production car like F12, that would be a bigger problem. I am told by people I find credible that the next V12 car will be turbo and not hybrid. They say this is a more reliable and less expensive option than the hybrid system.

But, this is not something I truly know. It's just some information I believe is correct.

The only place I know for sure you are wrong is what my hope is. My hope is they stick to a NA V12. My order of preference is probably NA, hybrid, and lastly turbo. So believe me, its not my hope.

 

Be interesting to see if you're right. Would love it if a second round of the VS comes onto the market. If I look at my part of Asia and also Australia where car sales are generally down, certain luxury brands are having very strong sales.

 

That's news to me !

I'm few days away from ordering a new F12 so I hope i can get a second run.

But no big hopes if any so I'm already prepared to buy the VS from the market.

Mbn

 

The FF is the logical car to have the V12 swapped for a V8TT. They could just drop the Cali T V8 in. It was a experiment for Ferrari, why not experiment on it further to see how the market reacts? Drop 4 cylinders and drop the price too to see if they can move them quicker.

The electric motor has a limited weight gain in a hybrid system, the majority of the weight comes from the battery. No one would asked for a battery the size of a Tesla one, or even a 918 sized battery. They could just keep the LaFerrari sized battery and use that as a helper propulsion and lowered fuel economy cycle test by quite a bit.

 

That's interesting, so if the car is say $500k, I think we can all assume it would trade at a premium. Would current 599 GTO prices be a guide do you think for secondary values of the F12 VS?

 

Interesting question. I think the 599 GTO is a guide post but not dispositive.

As to the LF battery- how much heavier is the LF than the Enzo... its quite a bit heavier and mostly due to the battery. Even if you cut the weight in half- you are still adding approximately 250 lbs to this vehicle. The LF at least has the benefit of being CF construction- the resulting weight- IMHO- is a bit on the higher side for a supercar priced into the 7 figures. The F12 gets no such benefits. I don't think a weight over 4,100lbs would be acceptable in the F12 successor....

The only way the fuel economy gets improved for test cycles is if they run electric only which was a discussion under LDM but not under SM... And the authorities have wised up to this game.....

 

It is possible that in this model or the next NA v12 Ferrari experiments its patented active camber and toe in suspension that can be seen on Google patents? Maybe these are included in the 4WS

 

Anyone hear back from their dealers about second round of allocations in the US? Would having all factory ordered 599GTB, 458 Italia, F12, and 458 Speciale qualify me for a second round F12 VS? *fingers crossed*

 

Well i ve had 599 GTO, 458 SA, Speciale, F12 and a few others from new plus I have owned most of the other limited used except the F50 and it didn't help. I hope you get it!

 

This makes no sense to me. I feel like you are getting screwed and you are worthy of an allocation.

 

Actually, a big chunk of the weight gain was due to the tougher government regulations on crash standard and equipment.

Also, remember before the LaFerrari was introduced, Ferrari tested the hybrid system on a 599 Hy-KERS concept. That whole system only added around 40kg.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/02/ferrari-599-hy-kers-geneva-motor-show-2010/

So the plans to fit a hybrid system to a front engine V12 Ferrari is already on file.

 

Oof, I would think you would be a slam dunk. Sorry to hear you didn't get one. I have no chance.

Maybe it's because you didn't buy any of the money losing cars like Cali and FF? Only thing I can think of.

 

Exactly - FF and Cali combo are a ticket to everything besides LaF

 

Not totally true. I have a friend who owns 599 GTO, 599 SA,16M, Cali, Speciale, FF and he couldn't get an allocation for a Speciale A.

 

Is he a member ?

 

No, and he did purchase some of these cars in the secondary market which I'm sure has a big impact.

 

He should contact FNA now and tell them WTF