Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Yes, 4WD is a huge advantage. Both Porsche and Lamborghini are implementing this tech to large extent, whereas Ferrari and McLaren are not. Many people prefer the twitchiness of RWD, being more of a "driver's car". But that is progress. And to each his own.

I do expect Ferrari and McLaren to implement it at some point, however I don't think it will be in the near future.

 

The traction advantage in slow corner exits is negated at higher speeds. Weight, friction and lack of purity in responses play their part.

 

Not really, no. At least not in terms of track performance.

Weight has an impact, sure, all things otherwise equal. Weight won't have a major impact on obtaining top track speed (not at these weight differences) for most tracks. Most of the time, on most tracks, it is mid-low speed accelerations and mid speed acceleration and braking that gets repeated. Also, it is clear from results that additional weight impact on initial acceleration is outweighed by the benefits of the additional traction of AWD, and carrying more weight through corners (a bad thing) is offset by greater ability to put the power down earlier and more aggressively during corner exit.

What Porsche has accomplished is maximizing the efficiency of the systems that are getting used most of the time across the vast majority of tracks. In other words, they shave a tenth here or there on areas / segments that repeat across a course. They don't need the highest top speed or the highest acceleration from mid-to-high speed, because that is not utilized with enough frequency across typical tracks (for the vast majority of tracks).

It really is brilliant and reflects an optimization view rather than bragging points or outright performance measures and metrics.

It reminds me (though for very different reasons) how optimized the Nissan GT-R is for street performance testing. Its weight would take a greater toll over time for doing multiple laps vs. perhaps a Porsche, but doesn't really hurt it on a one lap test or in general performance testing.

Not intended to be an analogy to the 918 other than the approach of optimizing for the purpose.

 

I see - I did not know that! I just got a set of N0's for my '15 991 GT3 (They came with Dunlop Sport Maxx Race). Looking forward to trying out the N0's at COTA in Dec...

 

im aware of the two situations, mainly I just want to see a proper test of LAF which is what im so surprised hasnt happened still. may have to wait til next summer... sheesh

 

It's always a trade off but you seem to underestimate the speeds on major European tracks.

 

Ah, now we have some confusion going on

What I am talking about for N0 and N1 is only for the Cup2s in 918 and RS sizes, i.e. 265/35-20 and 325/30-21. The difference there are on internal construction and compound choices, but they share the exact same tread pattern.

Every other sizes the N1s will be the newer version of N0 and good to go in your GT3.

I heard good things with the Dunlops, while they won't have the endurance and consistent grip of the Cup2s for long stings, they have softer compound for better low temperature grip, and also have a marginally higher peak grip, almost like qualifying tires vs actual race tires when comparing with Cup2s.

I have then on my GT3RS right now.

 

No, you seems to be the one underestimating the advantage of giving up 3/10th or 4/10th at the end of the longest straight on tracks while gaining 1/10th on every corner exits.

You have to remember, on just about every track in the world, their longest straights (where the P1 and the LaFerrari will have the top speed advantage) it's almost without fail are preceded by one of their slowest corners. Exiting that onto the straight, the 918 will pull out a head start distance wise, so the other cars will be playing catch up the whole straight even if they can have a faster top speed. That's the key advantage of the 918 have other it's peers.

Lap times are a time to distance measure, speed achieved is secondary.

 

What Porsche has accomplished is maximizing the efficiency of the systems that are getting used most of the time across the vast majority of tracks. In other words, they shave a tenth here or there on areas / segments that repeat across a course. They don't need the highest top speed or the highest acceleration from mid-to-high speed, because that is not utilized with frequency across typical tracks (for the vast majority of tracks).
Exactly what I mean, happy to see that other people think this, 918 and aventador sv and gtr share in part common principles...and its clear that event weighting nor than many other cars, thanks to the optimization on AWD and electric boost in Porsche case, they have a great advantage...I'm looking forward to discover if McLaren and Ferrari will prepare a very tough and optimized 4WD hybrid in the future years, although I thinks that is not near to come,
due to the tradition etc...

 

I find 6:45 slightly excessive...

Yes 918 is -as it seems- the undisputed King as far as track performance goes.

But shoving 12 whole seconds is kinda excessive. People here express their disbelief as to whether P1 achieved a Ring time under 7 mins as claimed by McLaren.

So in other words if P1's time is disputed, are we to believe that 918 is around 15 secs faster than P1, LaF around the Ring?

I honestly doubt it.

 

Exactly. Anyone can believe any potential time they want for any car - it is actual results that matter. See P1. I do believe the 918 will be faster than its current lap record, but until someone actually does it, 6.57 is the time.

 

I'm not underestimating anything. I'm talking about optimization and it clearly also applies to tracks with long straights (Nurburgring).

There will be exceptions, but that just means there are exceptions to the 918's optimization winning. It is nice to win in the majority of cases.

Like a chef's knife vs. some more specialized tool. In most cases, the tool optimized for the highest frequency uses is going to win when a challenge involves multiple uses (a track requires braking, going straight, low and high speed turns, and acceleration from lower, mid and higher speeds).

Not that Ferrari and McLaren did a poor job here. They likely could have done better, however, at not underestimating Porsche.

 

After a year with the p1 and 8 months with the 918, I have to say that I like the p1 just a teeny bit more.

 

That's all you're saying?! You're not going to expand on that satetement?! Are you teasing a book or something?!

Get on it, bro!!!

 

Proof please. Like timed laps.

 

The proof is out there if you look for it.

The N-Ring 6:57 lap time is a good example. On the straightaway at the end, the 918 only hit 290km/h because Marc Leib put the car in Sport Mode, to dial out the drag, but at the same time, the battery reserve was at 10%. On the 918 in Sport Mode, the battery cutoff point is 20% (in Hot Lap mode, it will deplete the battery 100%), so essentially the car was driving with its 608hp engine on the back straights.

The car still broke the record at the N-Ring because it was faster everywhere else, despite the slow top speed achieved. According to Porsche engineers when I visited the production line on 6/18, the 6:57 lap time was before the 918's final specification, which included the car went through 4 major updates since then, with battery overboost and optimization, more tuned 4WD set up (see Chris Harris latest video on the 918) and Marc did NOT run simulation tests for optimal use of the battery on the 918 prior to the test. Marc was simply told to run Hot Lap mode everywhere except the back straight. He was notified at the last minute and flew in on the second day of the N-Ring test. Usually for Porsche Leman program, they would always run simulation tests to find out how to optimize the boost strategy for the battery system.

On other tests like Autocar's MIRA track (over 1 second on a 1 minute track) and Motor Trend's Laguna Seca track (almost a second), the 918 literally destroyed the P1.

Do I believe the 918 is faster on all tracks? No. I seriously think the LaF and the P1 will be faster at tracks like Monza with multiple long straights. But the 918 will be faster on 80% of the tracks in the world because it has a simple traction advantage and absolute horsepower won't be a factor because it can't be put down onto the tarmac.

 

McLaren and Ferrari know this, that is why they refused to run against the 918 at Top Gear track which is another slower, shorter track. What I can't figure out is why Top Gear did not simply run only the 918 on the track and set a formal lap time? This would have embarrassed the two other companies even more than they had been.

 

we had this discussion a year ago...some of us heard certain things about an 'agreement' btw Top Gear and Mac, and a particular off the record discussion between the folks at EVO also shed some light on that P1 vs 918 test where Mac went back 2 weeks later with stickier tires.

looking back now, it all makes PERFECT sense. Mac and Ferrari massively underestimated Porsche and fanboys went all in with "918 is 500lbs heavier and way underpowered" belief. it hasn't turned out that way. only 150lbs separate the cars, and 918 makes more than 887hp. in the end, with AWD, 4WS, massive torque, plenty of downforce, massive tires, 918 will simply be faster on 'most' tracks.

 

We had a nice weekend testing at SPA and racing for 6 hours at the Ring where we finished 9 OA and 1 in class. Speed limits were still in place and we were running restricted HP of about 480 and 200 KG of ballast. Our fastest lap in traffic testing fuel conserving map during the race was an 8:14 (GP+NS). With road HP and no ballast even on road tires I think we'll be around 6:30 around the NS but our 8:14 GP +NS is an official time which isn't too bad. We are pleased and will continue development and remain hopeful about VLN 9 and next year.

 

P1 is lighter, you can feel the weight difference when you steer the car. Its a more fun and entertaining drive when pushed. Considering your alias I'm sure you can relate. The 918 is a glimpse of the future, with arguably best sounding modern v8 thrown in the package. Take the roof off and it even sounds better.

Both cars compliment each other as they drive very different

Hard work always pays off, congrats on the win Napolis, very happy for you and the team.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks for your observations about the two cars. Your insight reminds us that cars cannot be compared solely by a stopwatch; there are many subjective aspects of a car that the stopwatch simply won't capture. Enjoy your two fine hypercars!

 

Sorry mate, but you do not provide any proof that the 918 is faster than, say, the LaFerrari. It seems to be faster than the P1 on slow circuits though.

 

It is very difficult to prove anything about LaFerrari's performance given the embargo the company has placed on proper testing and comparisons. We can only estimate. And I would hate to base any assumptions on the factory car they keep at their test facility, as it may not be reflective of customer car performance.

 

Jim, WELL DONE!!!