Red Bull's 2016 F1 participation in jeopardy amid engine wrangle Red Bull's 2016 F1 participation in jeopardy amid engine wrangle - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com Red Bull's participation in Formula 1 beyond this season is in jeopardy unless talks to secure a replacement for Renault make progress, according to team principal Christian Horner. The four-time champion team would now appear to be solely reliant on securing a deal with Ferrari for 2016 and beyond. Red Bull is understood to have served notice on its contract with Renault, and Mercedes has decided against being its supplier. Ferrari team boss Maurizio Arrivabene recently stated the Scuderia would have no problem in supplying Red Bull, although a final call would have to come from chairman Sergio Marchionne. AUTOSPORT understands suggestions of Red Bull taking on a year-old spec of power unit are wide of the mark as it naturally wants to be competitive with a new supplier from the off. Asked by AUTOSPORT as to his team's chances of still being in F1 in 2016, Horner replied: "That depends on the desire of other parties for us to be in Formula 1. "If we don't have an engine, we can't compete. "Dietrich [Mateschitz] has always made it very clear he wants to have a competitive engine." Mercedes was initially Red Bull's preferred option, but the board decided over the course of the Italian Grand Prix weekend a fortnight ago against working with a team it felt would have become a major championship rival. Horner conceded to being neither surprised nor disappointed by the decision. "On the one hand you can understand Toto [Wolff, Mercedes motorsport boss] in that they see Red Bull as a threat," he said. "They're probably not that keen to see one of their biggest assets supplied to a competitor. Toto made his position pretty clear. "To be honest, we expected it. Toto, from the word go, was never a fan of supplying Red Bull. It was his board that was perhaps more interested than he was. "But it's not an option, so now we focus our attentions elsewhere." Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn remarked this week the contract with Red Bull was being "renegotiated". Ghosn added Renault would no longer be an engine supplier, though it would at least honour its deal for 2016 with Red Bull and Toro Rosso - if the teams wanted its power units. Asked how far down the line negotiations were with Ferrari, Horner replied: "Before discussing any other engine scenario it's important for us to understand what Renault's plans are for 2016. They seem to be formulating. "We will be sitting down with Renault to discuss that before committing or having anything else to talk about publicly. "So for us, first of all, let's focus on understanding what the Renault situation is, and then we can really address what our options are for the future. "But if you want a competitive engine it's obvious you're pretty limited."
You could see this coming a mile away. With other teams being the only source for PUs, F1 has a two-tiered system...factory teams (who make PUs) and customer teams (who buy PUs from the factory teams). No factory team is going to allow itself to be beaten by a customer. Without a bona fide independent source for PUs, F1 will be a two or, at best, three team competition, with the customer teams competing to see who is the tallest midget at the party.
So, it's going to be a Ferrari vs Mercedes pissing contest if Renault pulls out? I guess perhaps it'll be easier to spot a better chassis or better driver or both if everyone is on a similar PU lol.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like Renault might be back on the table. I mean if they literally have no options, they have zero leverage negotiating with Ferrari. They will get murdered. The Honda PU is still a joke for now. If they run the Renault unit in 2016, but have already dissolved the relationship, what kind of support could they really hope to receive? Sucks for RB. I hope they don't pull out - I like the way they bring drivers up through TR to the RB team. I think that part is good for the sport.
I have visions of Renault stopping their involvement in F1, and Red Bull/Toro Rosso pulling out at the same time. We could have a grid reduced by 6 cars next year, with Lotus going bust. As for Honda, who knows ... The only one I feel sorry about is Ricciardo; with a good car, he could do very well, I think. One of my favourites.
They spend around half a billion for their 2 teams per season. Viewership going down, cost going up...I'd leave too! This might be the kick FIA and F1 needs to change certain rules.
Perfect timing by Haas. They could debut in 3rd or 4th place in the constructors' in 2016. Of course, 4th could also be last.
Good job Haas has solved the PU question before starting. Now, let's see if Ferrari gives them their latest unit, or keep them behind like Sauber and Manor.
I think your thread title is more than a little misleading. There's nothing in that story to suggest they're going to quit in '20 or any other time come to that. My guess is they'll be Ferrari powered next year - Marlboro man said they're willing and able to do it. Cheers, Ian
One way or the other, RB will loose its factory team status and become a mere customer engine wise; that means fighting at a disadvantage. I don't think Mateschitz will like that!
No way ! They go electric next year: Adrian Newey considering electric power for Red Bull road car Adrian Newey considering electric power for Red Bull road car | Autocar
It was meant to read 2016, but somehow I mistyped it and FC didn't let me edit the title. Mateschitz is talking more and more about closing shop next year. Do you think he is bluffing? He even promised to provide alternative jobs to his 1200 employees (800 at RB, 400 at TR). He can afford to turn his back to F1 at any time.
Red Bull plays in a very broad spectrum of sports and promotional events. From cycling to rally to jumping out of a balloon at 70,000 feet to airplane races to sailing to all manner of daredevil nonsense, RB has no problem getting exposure, and getting it at far less expense than F1. Would they leave F1 if they felt like it? My opinion is that they would be gone in a heart beat.
Exactly my opinion. Now that they have achieved their goals and maximum exposure, it would be wrong for Red Bull to stay in F1 if it's only to get bad publicity. What makes a good sponsor if when he knows when to quit.
The problem is Red Bull KNOWS it's going to get sub par Ferrari engines. There is no way anyone who gets a Ferrari engine will beat that team. I think McLaren felt the same way with Mercedes. The only way around this is to have manufacturers sell engines who are not making competing cars-- like Ford was in the 60s through 90's. To do that, some of the money coming in has to go to engine developers but Ferrari will always object.
Just like they are a threat to private teams, motor manufacturers have managed to put independent engine builders out of business. Cosworth, Judd or Hart couldn't make F1 engines under the present system. The technology required is too complex, and expensive to make commercial sense. With Honda servicing exclusively Mclaren, and Renault declaring it won't be an engine supplier in future, that leaves only Mercedes and Ferrari left for 8 teams. I have no idea if they are obliged to supply engine to other teams (Manor, Haas, Sauber, Force India, Red Bull and Toro Rosso), but they would surely bring F1 to a grinding halt if they stopped doing so. That must surely put them in a position of strength in the Strategy Group, compared to the other participants.
The token system favours single engine suppliers per team. The hope, was to get more engine suppliers in the game, but the format for the engine over priced everyone but Honda, and now perhaps, Renault may exit. From an aerodynamic side, I've really liked the changes made with the 2014/15 rules package. Its much racier. Passes get made without DRS. Drivers cannot hold it on edge as well without mistake.
