who will be first to surpass senna in race wins? Vettel or hamilton?

See guys? I told you toil's a comedian!

 

what???

 

Looks like we don't have to worry about that.

 

Commentators called it suspension failure.....what are you talking about?

 

oh boy. Pretty funny stuff, in retrospect

 

Boxing, basketball (maybe better athletes, but less skilled), track and field (some events have WR that are 20+ years old), baseball, etc.

I don't know if the sports have gotten worse, but all of the technological and training advances haven't necessarily created accomplishments that exceed the greats of the past. I would take Michael Jordan over Lebron every day of the week. My college roomate STILL owns the world record in the 400m hurdles. I still believe boxers like Ali, Foreman, Holmes, etc would wipe the floor with any of today's champions. The greatest hitters in baseball are names from bygone eras.

 

Flummery will get you nowhere.

 

Warning - long winded reply ; )

I would agree with that - some have not become substantially better (you offer good examples) but I can't think of any that are actually worse.

Boxing - don't agree. There is a lot that plays into that. For one, fights are shorter now and more padding in the gloves. Almost impossible to compare. The heavyweight division has been horrible for a while now - probably a decade or more, but the lower divisions have produced some of the best fighters ever. Boxing is a weird one though because it does not really benefit from a larger talent pool, technology, and only to some extent nutrition. Too much muscle can be a bigger detriment than some might expect. There is no way to analyze the sport with computers to figure out how to fight someone, etc. A lot of that is just God-given. There is very little one can do if you can't take a punch - just as an example. Some guys don't even watch tape on opponents - as another example. A lot of the training is still where it was 50 years ago.

Basketball - yah Jordan probably still is the best ever, but the athletes are far better as a result of the conditioning, nutrition, greater talent pool, etc. I think college basketball is by far the best it has ever been, so if the NBA is flat, that isn't a reflection of a lack of progression in the athletes IMO but how the games are coached/played.

I could turn the baseball argument around easily to say that it's the result of better pitches rather than a decline in hitting. How many tall pitches played in the 20s or 30s? There weren't even that many tall humans period. Just look at how many guys easily throw in the 90mph+ range now vs 20, 40, 80 years ago. You also have some attrition of great athletes to other sports - like lacrosse.

The track and field stat is surprising I will admit. Especially with how much cheating goes on today. I know very little of track and field, but would assume the results are similar to boxing to some extent.

I've played a lot of sports personally at a decent to high level and motorsports are very unique IMO. The amount of concentration, analysis, and training needed is really unbelievable. Even if you are very talented, you aren't going to just show-up to an unknown track and blow people away (assuming similar vehicles). It takes a lot of analysis today to be competitive with the best drivers. Even in the lowest levels, everyone has gps-telemetry and is analyzing it. Everyone has access to decent simulators now as well. All that stuff will make you faster if you have some ability.

 

I'll accept most of what you've written except the piece on college basketball. It is a shadow of what it once was due to rules changes that keep the best players in for one year and move them to the NBA. Without digressing into an entirely different argument, there is very little teaching of the NBA quality players and that affects the product in the pro leagues.(I agree there are more phenomenal athletes but their skill-level is limited due to the cbb rules)

 

That is another good point - I hadn't considered all the players jumping ship. If they stayed in then I think my statement is true, but I would agree with the turnover the level is not what it should be really.

Yah I have zero interest in the NBA for that reason. I'd rather watch a good street game personally.

 

Minardi (STR)
Red Bull
Ferrari
Race of Champions..

 

I'm not clear about if he was talking about Lewis or Vettel....but if he was referring to Vettel, then the comparison was ridiculous anyway.

Poor toil would have been feeling so smug when he started this thread.

 

Did you got banned?!!!
Well, glad to see you around here again, as Ian said, we all missed you "wisdom pearls" and "strange dialect".....hope the bluebox on wheel is ok!

 

F1 is full of ironies or would be situational ironies.

Lewis could have totalled Senna's 41 GP victories in 161 starts.

Vettel matched the 41 victories in the aftermatch of Bianchi's death,....the first F1 death since Senna.

Schumacher won his 4th WDC and equalled Prost on his 51st victory.

Etc etc etc