Red Bull finished with Renault motors

yes sure, they are not capablel of building a proper engine but the will get a engine AND chassis right?

Renault should leave f1. Nothing there for them. A car builder of small and middle class poor quality family cars have nothing to do in F1.
I NEVER understood the reason for their presence except as for a toy for the elite-management. (and paid by the taxpayers)

 

I agree.

Dinosaur or not...The majority of F1 tech simply does not apply to road cars. We'll never see a roadcar with a combustion chamber optimized so that you can only ever use fuel from Petronas or risk losing 40+hp, for instance.

F1 is a racing series first and foremost, once everyone turns the TV off and doesn't go to the races anymore, it's gone. It's a tough situation they're in but it is what it is. The one car which was an F1 inspired car for the road (caparo T1) was a massive flop because quite simply, it doesn't work (it needed aero to get grip...and aero only works at higher speed!)

 

These are the darkest times for F1 that I can remember. If Renault doesn't take over Lotus and actually ends up pulling out. Yikes.

The V6 turbo era positively sucks.

 

Door open for year old engines (brilliantly calling them "current-1" engines...who comes up with this stuff?)

F1 Strategy Group to discuss rules on teams using year-old engines - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Red Bull is well and truly Fudged...they have fewer and fewer options for next year and none of them seem good. They did it to themselves.

 

I agree with that.

In spite of some success in the past, I have never understood why Renault got in F1 in the first place. It's not the right environment for them.

Now, of course, their departure would create a void in F1 for a few months only.

 

+F1

 

If we have a single independent power unit supplier we may as well run as A1 which was a flop. Bernie is killing the sport and I cannot understand how he cannot see this? Sure he will be dead before he can spend all his money, even if he quit now - but really!

Give the teams carte blanche to develope their own V8's and chassis. Simple, no fancy DRS, KERS, etc, one uniform type of dry tyre and one uniform type of wet tyre, and allow re-fueling. As far as quali goes it makes sense to keep the fans interested for the whole hour...

So how about you have to run competitive laps in all three sessions, say within 2% of your fastest time, but the fastest time for the hour wins.

 

Oh dear, Christian Horner et al really should have just stayed quiet and just worked harder and been more professional about the whole situation. Now, as it stands, if the Renault deal is terminated they will be losing massively in terms of finances

- From 2nd to 4th in the World Constructors championship means a loss of around $20,000,000 according to the Concorde Agreement. Ouch.

- The Infinity sponsorship would also go. That is supposedly worth around $30,000,000 per year. Infinity is owned by Renault, so if the latter pulls out, the former is a dead cert to go also. Again - ouch!

- Equally, Red Bull receive sponsorship money from French oil company Total, which is a long-time supporter and technical partner of Renault, so you would imagine it would also make an exit. Oh dear, this is starting to sound painful.

- Red Bull will probably have to pay Renault for early termination of their contract. I can't imagine that will come cheap. Think tens of millions of dollars.

- And finally, hey will also have to pay - in the region of $20m (£13m) - for their Ferrari engines, whereas the Renault bill was covered - and more - by the Infiniti money. With Renault they were officially the "Works" factory team so the engines were free. With Ferrari they'll have to pay as they'll be a customer team.

This is going to get very painful for Red Bull.

I'd hate to be Dietrich Mateschitz at this point in time.

 

There are smart people at Renault, they collect data on everything, they are bound to know what the issues are. With all the tools of modern engineering, stress testing, computer simulations, ect. The problems and solutions have to be known, so why have they not been fixed? I have often speculated that perhaps the problem is with how the Renault power unit is configured into the Red Bull chassis, and Renaults solution might require modifications to the chassis.

wouldn't it be great to see Renault buy the Lotus team, and then finnish ahead of Red Bull in the first race next season.

 

As Jaski said, F1 is a racing series. Can you imagine a discussion in California that goes like this..."Hey, Mildred, don't forget to set the alarm for 4:30am so we can get up on Sunday morning to see what the FIA thinks is the future of automotive engineering. I really love the fact that these cars follow one another around for almost 2 hours to demonstrate that they actually can drive 200 miles at a time with hybrid power units that use a turbocharged internal combustion engine and 2 energy recovery systems"

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now get ready for Red Bull to quit F1 along with Renault.

 

There isn't yet, thankfully. I was referring to if that was ever considered.

 

Allan McNish: How messy could Red Bull?s divorce be? - BBC Sport

Nice analysis of this issue via BBC

 

But, but, but

We have been down the path of having sole suppliers before with the idea floated that if everyone moved to a single engine then it would be cheaper. And I seriously believe that every manufacturer would have to use a single engine because that is the only way Cosworth could be competitive. As someone else posted, if Honda and Renault, both multi billion dollar companies can't afford to compete, Cosworth aint got **** show.

I know most of the posters in this section are English but the days of two mechanics in a shed in surrey or essex, ala Hesketh, running an F1 team are well over so small private teams such as Manor and Cosworth ended 20+ years ago. IMO, Red Bull will have Ferrari engines and be competitive next year. What we do need is less teams but more competitive teams so I hope Honda does get some traction and McLaren gets back towards the front of the grid.

 

Bernie and Ferrari where against all this. Bernie commented on the engine change he was worried about the noise and therefore if it would attract people still.

 

As i die-hard fan of formula 1 since 1976 I do not agree.

It is not the use of all new technology that created this nonsense. It is the set of rules, and rulemakers that did.

I do fancy the idea that ordinary cars could benefit from F1. I do fance that they try to make them more fuel efficient, my car isn't using water so any saving is welcome.

What i do NOT like is that constant interfering due to politics and than "fix" ( or better: freeze) it for years. Just set a set of basic rules, include KERS and hybrid and whatever they think of next. Just set a set of rules that will not EXCLUDE any smart solution but INCLUDE them per definition. "it's not ruled out, so allowed"

And that's the point: what they think of next. F1 should be about outsmarting the competition. Like lotus did with their wing car, like williams did with their active suspension. Like Renault tried with their turbo. like the use of tyres for qualifying, like a pitstop for fuell, or tires or whatever.

All of these DID enhance current street cars in one way or another. Now however it is turned around. Hybrids are on the streets for more than a decade. F1 follows.. So what i mean. F1 was always about being smarter. Now it's merely political smartness.

So set this set of rules but then let it go. If Honda finds a smarter way but they need more testing? let them! If pirelli want to make better tyres by testing: let them.
If Cosworth has a brainwave out of the box, make it possible.

The current way thing are ruled make the F1 into a boring game. Rules that do not allow development are, per definition, a step back.

tehnology is never the cause, it nevber was. The rule makers were, always

 

As a die-hard F1 fan since 1961, I am sticking with what I said. This notion that F1 needs to lead the way in automotive technology and that that direction MUST be set by the FIA rather than innovative designers working for the teams, is the root of the arcane, stringent and ridiculous rules that you object to.

 

If your idea does not account for infinite cost escalation (which ultimately results in manufacturers and teams dropping out), then you do not have a viable idea.

 

That fact that there isn't anymore a cheap, readily available power unit over the counter from an independent engine builder NOT linked to a major car manufacturer is the bottom of the problem in F1.

For too long, the FIA has kowtowed to the wishes of big manufacturers in F1, instead of looking after the interest of small private teams.

BMW, Honda, Mercedes, Renault, Toyota and others come and go from F1; they expect the rules to be taylored to their interests and then they leave when it suits them.

 

First Mercedes and now Ferrari are 'afraid'. Sad. Be nice to see other teams competitive and fighting. Makes for better racing.

Ferrari 'frightened' to supply Red Bull with F1 engines - Ecclestone - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Ferrari 'frightened' to supply Red Bull with F1 engines - Ecclestone
By Ian Parkes Wednesday, September 23rd 2015, 09:09 GMT


Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne is "frightened he is going to upset his team" should he decide to supply Red Bull with engines, according to Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

Ferrari has emerged as Red Bull's only option to continue in Formula 1 next year as the Milton Keynes-based organisation is to split with current supplier Renault at the end of this season, while Mercedes has decided against a deal.

Ecclestone has confirmed initially brokering an agreement between Ferrari and Red Bull, although Marchionne has expressed the same concerns about doing so as did his counterpart at Daimler, Dieter Zetsche.

The fear is with a clearly improving Ferrari power unit in an aerodynamically well-designed Red Bull, the customer would potentially be stronger than the works team.

"For Formula 1, he [Marchionne] would love to do it, to get Red Bull competitive with an engine, but he doesn't want to damage the team he runs," Ecclestone told AUTOSPORT.

"If Red Bull get [a better] engine then they are obviously going to be competitive, it's an obvious concern, but he's frightened he's going to upset his team.

"It's now down to Sergio to make up his mind, and I'm sure it will be sorted out shortly one way or the other."

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz - who is prepared to pull his two teams out of F1 if they cannot get competitive engines - revealed at the weekend talks with Ferrari have so far been "positive and encouraging".

Ecclestone says Marchionne is aware of the pressure on his shoulders as to lose two teams and four cars from the grid would damage Formula 1.


He also feels Marchionne's concerns would have been further raised by what unfolded during the Singapore Grand Prix on Sunday in which second-placed Daniel Ricciardo pushed race winner Sebastian Vettel to the chequered flag.

"It didn't help too much with the performance of Red Bull in Singapore," said Ecclestone.

"Ferrari will say 'Well, what about if they had our engine?' because Red Bull challenged with an engine that is well down on power.

"So Ferrari are concerned about Red Bull having the same power as them.

"Frankly, I don't think it should be a concern because that race [Singapore] is a drivers' race, and if they had another 40 horsepower it wouldn't make a difference."

 

Paint the Red Bull's the same color as the Ferrari red - problem solved.

 

Make Mercedes, Honda and Ferrari sell engines to FOM and then FOM can resell them to whichever team wants or needs them. Each manufacturer, as part of its requirements to be allowed to make F1 PUs, would have to agree to make up to 24 (wag) PUs available for sale through FOM at a set price. FOM then would make the PUs available to teams that do not make their own PUs. The FIA regs already stipulate that all F1 engines have common mounting points, so, theoretically, Red Bull or Sauber or any team could bolt in a Ferrari PU on Monday and a Honda PU on Friday.

If I were Ferrari, I would say no to Red Bull and Toro Roso under the current rules.

 

That proposal is unlikely to meet the approval from the engine manufacturers.
If they loose their independence and are forced to surrender their strategy to FOM, some will probably leave. F1 would become a specs series.
It need LESS regulations, not more to survive.

 

Hahahaha, as if anyone would let them bolt a Honda engine in on a Friday! Bloody hell, imagine the disappointment when they checked the serial number on the engine and it came back as a bang bang special!

Could be fun though if for qualy, they let the bottom three teams take an engine for each driver blind, then reverted to their usual one for Sunday! You might get a manor on pole having bobbed a merc or Ferrari PU, and then get a mixed up race for the day! And mclaren would be able to remember the good ole days once in a while

 

Mateschitz is threatening to quit F1 with both of his teams.

Now THAT would be a scary thought. I realize we get Haas and his cars, but still 4 cars gone from the grid would be a gaping wound.

I hope it won't come to that.

 

It's also not certain that Lotus will survive; the creditors are asking for blood and the deal with Renault isn't done yet.