Air box stencil – “Ferrari UFI” or “Ferrari”

69249 Just Ferrari

 

Thanks guys. I assume that both of your air boxes are original or restored to known original?

Your two cars would help narrow the range.

 

Alberto - just returned from a drive and took some pictures for you to compare. Mine was restored four years ago. You will notice the "crinkle finish" appears to be different then yours which could affect the lettering you were referring to. Also tried to get a photo that Brian (Rifledriver) was referring to in post 19. Little difficult with a hot engine in dark garage.
Hope this helps.

Regards
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that's a very good work, but It's clearly not original for every judge that will see it: the edges of the letters haven't a perfectly straight cut like my ones.

I'm glad to see that nobody can still reproduce in a perfect way the original writing on the airfilter cover, or It would have affected the value of my garage queen with 8 miles since new...

ciao

 

Not being a member of the board, I was not asked but I fully support the change. The judging guidelines, correctly applied made the 95 point level too low a hurdle in my opinion.

Many peoples opinion of it is based on experiences of incorrect judging. As an example lets use the stencil question. No one knows at witch VIN the change was made so anyone deducting for it is wrong. In your case if in fact the car got a deduction it should be appealed. At that point that judge would be asked to provide some level of evidence that does not now exist, other judges considered authorities on the model would be asked (me possibly one of them) and the deduction would be reversed. We simply do not at this point in time have that level of documentation for such minor details for models of that era. I am aware of a 308 discussed here that got a deduction for a non matching serial numbers. Well the person involved was reading the assembly number for which no records exist that we have access to that will correlate a VIN to an assembly number for cars of that period. It was challenged and the point was restored. Highly paid Refs in the NFL get their decisions reversed every game. If an incorrect deduction is made you have all the rights of an NFL coach to challenge the decision.

As far as the overall points system goes, I consider our TR an excellent driver. In a national 3 or so years ago we entered it and I think we got 99 points and I could have challenged one of the deductions but there was no reason to. In my opinion it needs to change somewhat and if this gets applied to the FCA events I think it will be a good thing.

 

Mine was resprayed by the previous owner but I am reasonably confident the graphic matched the original design.

BTW, the build date on my 67033 car is Sept. 86.

-F

 

I have not had a deduction for the air box in the past 4 years; which is when I restored it. My original was a bit faded which may or may not resulted in a point or half point deduction. This brings to light of when does originality yield to deterioration and at what point do you restore.
I think an owner has to decide at some point to preserve a car through preservation, albeit with a "rolling preservation" as opposed to complete deterioration.

Regards

 

All good points. I was speaking to John Barnes last week on another subject and also voiced my opinion that the 97 level for platinum was for the better.

 

Thanks. I will adjust the new range with your input and will use Gerry's input until he doesn't verify originality or a lower VIN is received.

the new range is:

Highest "Ferrari UFI" VIN is 67033

Lowest "Ferrari" VIV is 69249

 

This is like the tool kit strap in the trunk. It was discontinued somewhere between Jan/87 and Mar/87. I have never ever heard it come up in discussion or get looked at. I bet some do not even know some have it and some do not.

The air box changed somewhere between Sept/86 and Jan/87.

 

I'm sorry, relaized just now I did nor write well: with "judge" I did not mean a concours judge nor the Classiche inspector. They will both say "ok" as it's very well done like the original. I mean that an expert will recognize that the writing is not original but a redone. Time capsule cars don't have redone writings.

Ciao

 

No problem, Alberto. You are correct that an original low mileage car, as we say “garage queen” or “time capsule”, is very original as opposed to what most cars are in existence. To that point, one would not be able to enjoy the car as intended as the result would be a tremendous loss to the premium paid for such a car; unless the original owner still owns the car.

Here is such an example of a 328 that has been discussed in the past.

89 Ferrari 328GTS-Red - Motor Classic & Competition Corp.


Regards.

 

Anyone else have input within the range below?

The new range is:

Highest "Ferrari UFI" VIN is 67033

Lowest "Ferrari" VIV is 69249

 

I think it was probably discontinued earlier. My 81 308 had the strap but my 84 doesn't.

 

Nope. Used up until mid 328 production.

 

Maybe different for Euro cars? I've seen other Euro QV's without the strap and my car is all original in the trunk but there's no strap or hook and no sign there ever was one.
Anybody else got a 308 QV without the the tool roll strap?

 

There are several other small changes as well, such as the leather "socks" around the seat-belt stalks which seem to have disappeared sometime around 87. I spotted a judge comparing my 89 car in this area to another competitor who had them and he might well have made a deduction thinking mine should have had them.

Not sure in the US but at UK FOC concours you have to keep away from the car and not allowed to interact with the judges so no way to know what specific points have been deducted.

 

There are subtle changes that occurred during the production run of the 328. Some additional ones in addition to the thread topic and your comments are:

1. The color change of the space saver spare tire rim going from a silver color, same as regular rims, to a dark gray.

2. The period of when the front bonnet had the underside as the same color as the body as opposed to the black paint in the earlier part of production to the rug application during the latter part of production. This was discussed a while ago in this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/335572-front-hood-insulation.html

3. The change of having one piece of rubber on the top of the passenger floor mat for shoe protection to two pieces of rubber, one on the bottom (top of mat) and another at the top of the mat, also for shoe protection, under the dash.

As Rifledriver commented in post #19 of this thread, documentation is somewhat scarce or incomplete at best concerning the subtle changes. Resources such as F-chat provide a forum for discussion to possibly arrive at approximate time or VIN when changes occurred. I use the word approximate as we all know things are never definitive when dealing with Ferrari production, especially with older cars and production.

As to the judging methodology you are referring to, I believe it is called “French Judging”. The rules are different in that the judge does not touch or sit in the car but views from a distance. Others with more knowledge can comment with respect to the differences.

 

Add in other differences such as some 328's getting a full-sized spare and the changes to the rear "328" emblems over time and it gets really confusing. Some changes are obviously engineered in or changes in the supply chain. With others you really get the feeling that Luigi just pulled whatever he wanted from the parts bin when he was building the car.

 

The size of the spare Wheel dépends on the market of destination and its législation: in Europe, cars sold in the U.K and Switzerland had a full size spare (a front 7' inches). All other euro cars got the slim spare Wheel.
The rear badges were of three different groups, discussed here a few months back.
Rgds

 

This is almost a T/J but along the same lines as the airbox so I will include it here. If a subforum Mod wants to break into it's own thread that is ok.

I've seen several early US-market 328's with a full sized spare, my GTB has this. I learned from one of the Cavallino judges that this is correct as some early cars got a full-sized spare and others got the donut.

Here is a point of reference for US cars. I owned both of these cars, both early 328's with December 1985 builds. 61327 is my current GTB and 61553 was my GTS I sold a few years back.

61327--full sized spare
61553--donut

Another difference in the early cars was lack of a leather cover over the seatbelt spindle. Later 328's got a cover while it is exposed on the early cars.

 

Correctly judged 1+2 don't matter. As far as the paint on the bottom of the front hood it is not officially known but I personally have it down to a narrow VIN range in Oct 87. The front hood liner like wise has no official change date but I personally have it down in the 788xx range which overlaps the US 88/89 model change over. The paint color of the wheels is so inconsistent I don't see it ever being worthy of consideration. I'd bet no one knows for sure which size spare came with which car with specificity. In the US models it changed early on but no one knows for sure when or even if there was a specific VIN when it changed. If a judge on my team wanted to deduct for either I'd ask him to prove it to me.

People need to understand our philosophy. Judges are not rewarded nor encouraged to show off what they know. We have no desire to judge minutia. If it is an important change that can be documented when it happened and it was consistent, great but the burden of proof is on us and there exists little to no recognized and accepted proof for most of these minor issues. One of the reasons I am doing this is to create a data base to answer some of the questions but my work has been pretty limited to the 328. No other exists for pretty much any of the other cars from say the GT4 to the 348. The cars tended to be inconsistent in many ways still and it is inappropriate to make deductions for some of this stuff. I know it happens and you need to be an advocate for your car.

 

They were correct.


I knew about your GTS but the GTB helped narrow the window some.