F1 can do without Red Bull, to make room for more team like Hass in fact. Red Bull wants to dictate, most of the others just want to race.
So you do not think that Red Bull has brought this on themselves? Red Bull laughed in the faces of their rivals when they were dominant in F1. Now they're no longer dominant, they've ditched Renault before having a replacement engine supplier on board. Then when they were offered a life-line, they made demands that it had to be a 2016 spec engine or nothing! - And so were told: "Then it is nothing!" Sorry but Red Bull are not quite the innocent victims of Ferrari and Mercedes that you seem to want to portray them as! They wanted to ditch the partner they already had, a partner who had given them 4 WCC's and a partner with whom they still had a contract with, in the hope of getting an easier WCC win in the future, and their plan has blown up in their faces! This whole situation is like a married man who has become bored with his wife and so one day tells her: "I'm fed up with you and I'm no longer in love with you! I'm going to move in with the sexy girl next door!", even though the girl next door has never shown any interest in him. When he goes next door though, the sexy girl tells him: "Sorry but I have no interest in you whatsoever! - Please go away!" So then he decides to try the attractive woman over the road, but she tells him: "You can use My spare room but I'm not going to sleep with you!", to which he replies: "Either we sleep together or I don't move in!", and so she then says: "Well then you're not going to live here!". So now his options are: 1) Go back to his wife begging for forgiveness. 2) Become homeless, losing everything. At no point could you claim that the people at fault for his predicament are the girl next door or the woman over the road! - He brought it on himself, just as Red Bull have!
LOL! What a great analogy. And, yes, Red Bull's pain for 2016 does seem entirely self-inflicted. All the best, Andrew.
Portray them,-- I stated it would be bad if a winning team left F1. Nothing else. I could care less about your analogy. Having fewer cars on the grid is bad. Period. The politics of this are well known as far as Red Bull are concerned in their dealings with Renault. Old news. New news is we might lose 2 teams and for the sport I care about, F1, thats not good. Very simple. Mercedes and Ferrari are hardly golden precious children in terms of F1. I am certainly not blind to wealth and ego driving things. Thats how it works in F1. I do not see Red Bull as victim or blameless. Its time to hopefully sort their situation so we have actual competition for Mercedes and Ferrari - that should not be too hard for you to deal with. I dont have an agenda about Red Bull nor am I their greatest fan. I like good racing and Red Bull have provided that. So dont waste your time looking for inference in my posts. I think the sport need Red Bull and the sport is better with them.
If I am at Red Bull HQ, I start looking at declining F1 attendance and viewership, lack of excitement in the races, poor performance of Renault lump, no possibility of getting Mercedes of Ferrari PUs, no reasonable alternative to access better PUs, likelihood of winning in the next 2 seasons near zero, high cost of competing, and I start to hear a little voice in my head saying..."Law of diminishing return." Then I pull the plug and deploy my marketing resources elsewhere. Red Bull was successful before RBR and F1 and it will be successful after.
+1 However, last I checked it was four cars! Would really like them to sell STR; If the rumors are true, Mr M basically bought them at Bernies behest to keep them on the grid. Once they were "saved" I always thought the plan was to move them along. OK, there probably aren't that many lunatics in the market for an F1 team, but I'm surprised Bernie hasn't dug one up..... Cheers, Ian
RB are the boil that F1 needs to lance. It is not a heritage team. It is a jumped up spoilt brat of a team with no respect for anything other than itself. I don't want to see 4 less cars on the grid, but I would rather have less cars or 3 car teams than putting up with their BS. They are worse than Alonso. If it is the number of cars that causes concern, it shouldn't as Bernie is obligated to field a minimum field size - hence the 3 car team scenario.
Before it was called Red Bull Racing (2005 onwards), it was Jaguar Racing (2000-2004), and before that it was Stewart Grand Prix (1997-1999: 1 pole, 1 victory). So it has a bit more history than as an energy drink company's race team, although the history throughout that energy drink's ownership has been pretty spectacular. I admit a fizzy drink isn't sexy, but they're still doing better than y the supercar manufacturer McLaren-Honda. Heritage takes a long time to build up. There are really only three teams on the grid old enough to have what I would call uninterrupted heritage: Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams. Mercedes is an old name in F1, but it's a completely different team now. I'd miss Red Bull if they withdrew. I think their engine supply problems for next year are their own doing, but I still hope they find a way to make it to the grid in 2016 and beyond. All the best, Andrew.
Exactly. Very well stated. Your first sentence is the main reason Bernie *hates* teams changing their names. I believe it cost Mr M many $ in lost prize money the year after they changed from Jag to RBR for example. He recognizes the importance of heritage to the sport. Cheers, Ian
IF RB does leave, I wonder how quickly we can get 3 car teams, and at whose expense? Sponsors aren't going to cough up 50% more that quickly, if anything at all... Might have to be Bernie to a certain point . The teams dug their own hole with the demands for the new engine formula (bar Ferrari, I think the only team that didn't agree to the engine regs and only sort of agreed with the V6 because it would be better than the I4), now it looks like they might pay a very hefty price: Beginning of the end? Or will Bernie have a masterstroke still...
Sorry, I'm not following you; Manor have got Ferrari power next year, but AFAIK both the Big Cans & the Babies are currently without an engine supply for next year(?) Or have I missed something? Cheers, Ian
Let's be clear - f1 will not die unless the fia choses to kill it off. F1 is their chosen top dog formula and that's the end of it. No other series is allowed to challenge f1s dominance - and that is deliberate policy. Unfortunately, this means the health of the sport is down to Bernie and the teams. I actually believe Bernie would change things for the better, but he cannot dictate. These decisions require unanimous team support and that is unlikely to materialise anytime soon... The f1 strategy group is an enternal quest for compromise and that just leads to an agreement based on the lowest denominator solution. It's hardly a path set for revolution anytime soon.
Oops! My bad, you're absolutely right, sorry. I know that's been "rumored", but I don't think anything is confirmed as yet? And the Big Cans are still insisting it's "2016 spec or nothing", right? Cheers, Ian
FIA can keep it alive but if no one wants to watch anymore, there will be no sponsors, which means no teams. FIA can keep their name all they want, but there will not be anyone racing! I just hope Bernie has a trick up his sleeve. Surely the teams must realize that exciting engines, exciting races = more viewers = more attractive for sponsors = F1 is glorious and worthwhile and profitable?! Yeah just a rumour as far as I'm concerned. Dutch ''news'' things are confirming just about everything, including just talks RE verstappen and Mercedes for if there are 3 car teams coming, he's signed on already according to the Dutch! (I love the kid, but Verstappen Mania is a true thing here and am already going nuts over it; people that had zero interest in F1 or racing are suddenly THE expert ). Things pick up quickly I guess with neighboring countries also ''confirming'' nothing but rumours. Big Cans are certainly insisting on 2016 engines. IMO, even with old spec Merc lumps they would be top team right now. Look how close they where this weekend and weekends past, even with the Croissant engine. baby cans too...Sainz' performance has been underestimated this week and largely ignored. From plum last to 7th easy, and would have finished higher too was it not for his car breaking... Still a serious outfit, STR/RBR, and shouldn't be ignored. Their quick development, great drivers (in all of them!) and endless money could well be their curse in their bid for another engine... Shame that the current rules don't allow anyone to just build an engine. Where the rules simpler, no doubt Red Bull would have either convinced Cosworth to build them a great engine or buy an old outfit and have Red Bull branded engines...
It's a bull without horns now, Ferrari couldn't care less what they want, and merc won't even talk to them..... Dire
Brought this on themselves and now Adrian Newey is joining in. Why should an engine supplier give then power units when when they win it is down to the genius of Newey or Redbull and when they lose down to the engine?
Probably the best outcome for RB is to squirm back to Renault and beg for mercy. I just hope that if it comes to that, Renault triple the per engine cost (at least)...
what a bunch of whinners. This has always been my complaint about red bull. They are of the strawberry generation. Bruise too easily under hard work and stress. They should take their licks like everyone else. Ferrari went winless, mclaren... everyone. These guys are acting like children that didn't get a toy when its their brothers birthday. Its a shame.
