This is another reason why non-racing Ferraris should have manual gearboxes.

Now with all Ferraris having automatic transmissions the car has zero sports car statement value as anyone can now own and drive a Ferrari--no skill or expertise required.

Kylie Jenner Upgrades the Ferrari Tyga Bought Her as a Birthday Gift?See the Pic! | E! Online

BTW, anyone remember the old days when you had to respect your car? Or your 911 would have you ass backwards into a tree and your Ferrari might spin off the road?

 

It really not because of the transmission. It's because all the nanny, traction control, stability control, etc.

I was coaching someone in 991 GT3 the other day. The nanny saved him from hitting the wall more than one time. In fact we never even gotten sideways more than 10 degree because the nanny is so good.

 

How insecure must someone be to really care who else drives the same car as them?



Mark

 

Clown car

 

Seriously?

Any moron can press a clutch pedal and move a lever. Nothing to do with being a competent or skilled driver.

Formula One is all "automatic" and has been for years.

Anyone who wants to prove his manhood based on his gearbox choice can get a John Deere or a Miata.

 

Big red wheels... agree, not something I would do.

 

The self-driving flappy paddle cars have opened the door to a completely different demographic. The Kartrashians and Beibers of this world wouldn't have bothered to learn how to drive an old school Ferrari.

 

Hate to say it but Ferrari has been an increasingly bogus brand for years. The one great drawback to driving a ferrari is the badge and the negative stigma it conveys to most people about you. Yep drive aferrari and you are not a sportscar conniseur/hobbyist but you are keeping up with every lame ass stockbroker and kardashian.

If you want an authentic drivers car signifying skill and good taste get a lotus evora, z06 or Pagani huraya. Of course the motor is not quite the same, and its nothing to brag about, the latter eliminating 90% of buyers who simply must have the self affirmation of a horsey.

I think a 458 is beautiful, but bland to drive below 9/10th, a sign of making it "useable" a speciale is great and the new TDF looks great, but frankly a z06 does the same. Ferrari itself says they ahve made these cars driveable by "gnetlemen" drivers or posuers which is the majority of its clientale. Yes the machines still ahve a[ppeal, but they dont own the hi po space anymore and its all a negative vibe.

Fortunatly even though it has flappy paddles an aventador is also beyond the skill level of the average ferrari driver clown.

 

Really? Sounds like sour grapes to me, especially if you are in a Ferrari forum with a Porsche/Subaru user name (Or do you own a BB and still hate the mark?). Some of us are Italian, know and love the history of the mark, and love the styling, sound and performance. Ferrari did not cook their software and lie to the world about emissions and send the company stock into a tailspin either. I could have bought a 4C (too late) or a BMW or Porsche but to me and my family heritage it would be just plain wrong.

 

Here's the thing (just one interpretation).

In the 60s or 70s, a Ferrari would cost the equivalent of maybe $100k today. So perhaps 2x a more typical worker's earnings pre-tax (maybe a touch more). So it took wealth some wealth and a lot of good taste / desire to get the car. Used Ferraris, even relatively "new" ones were even cheaper.

So if you were a true car enthusiast, could put up with some reliability issues, and worked hard, you could buy the car. The cars also rewarded good driving.

Today, for all the talk of how production volumes may make these cars too common / not exceptional enough, prices and attainability are actually far removed from what any "common person" can even aspire towards. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot earn their way to affording a new Ferrari, which on a relative basis is now 2x to 3x more expensive.

The vast majority of owners (from new) are in the uber wealthy group, and the vast, vast majority of those have inherited the money / position to afford the cars. The cars themselves are being marketed more and more as pure luxury items, and not just really nice sports cars with beautiful engines.

That is the reality of it and it has changed the "tone" of what the brand means today vs. 30, 40 or 50 years ago. The company has followed that same path and so has the mentality of a lot of people who are now associated with the brand.

Personally, I don't care about DCT or MT -- both have sports-oriented elements, and I now own cars of both kinds (though a MT car IS still generally more enjoyable to me). But I do think the essence of Ferrari is different from even when I was younger and reading about the cars in R&T in the 80s...

 

Nothing has changed. You have nitwits that can't press a clutch pedal and drive the car now just as you had nitwits that burned out a clutch 30 years ago. More money than brains has been with us for some time.

What has changed is in the past you had to know at what point of the turn to press the left foot down and downshift in the turn. If you didn't, you were killed when you slid into the tree. Now, with the stability control and braking control and airbags when they get killed in the car its not because of THEIR inability to operate the car.. but because they push the car too far beyond the computers control.

Which of the above marks the lesser brain is questionable, "respecting the car" has just shifted the equation into truly nitwit territory IMHO.

Ferrari has ALWAYS been about the car being a fashion accessory, even into the 60's.

The values that we as a society need to give the Kardashian's so much money.. that is the real issue in my mind.

 

Not a Speedster . . . ?

 

Ah OK, I have to agree there. And since you mention it, the "new money" thing is something I've seen in life, even before my wife's insurance showed up after her battle with cancer ended I had no clue how much she tucked away! And yes she was a real redhead, even though it fell out 2 times over her epic struggle. I didn't inherit much at all before that as the 5th of 7 children. My grandmother gave me just enough to make a down payment on our condo. But my grandfather, God bless him, took a job out of college in '32 with a degree in metallurgy sweeping mill shavings as a janitor for US Steel. Then WWII broke out and sure enough he started work as a professional. By the 60s when I was born, he was in management. Had a stroke late in life but got 10 extra years with good care and testified as an expert witness at trials, even with slurred speech. He worked very hard at it. My younger brother has his class ring and 6 girls of his own, God bless him! So I am not really new money but not old money either. My folks raised me right to work hard and to be happy with what you have. Art and music are important and so are some fun toys or a nice vacation, and seeing the world as a world citizen. That is not an issue with me. I would love an F1 transmission if it would fit the budget. Mostly because I have played so many racing sims with that banging through the gears. But I do enjoy my manual gearbox and blipping the throttle. Always have. My feet are kind of big and I'm still working on the proper heel toe technique. For the manual experience, there is a great Petrolicious video of Derek Hill driving a 1964 250 GTO in the CA hills. Epic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewQaikxTUJs

 

Yes, I remember the old days, when accidents in traffic killed far more people than today.

What will you rant of next, that a car with ABS brakes is fir skill less wimps?
That the same wimps fasten the seat belts instead if being heroic?

Get a grip on reality!

 

... where you are the crumple zone, with a gas tank over your knees, an optional lap belt, and a rear engine over skinny tires?

The guys who raced these back in the days had nothing to prove, IMHO.

 

Welcome to last years discussion.

 

Drivers aids are not a substitute for lack of driver skill, too often they are, and I mean all driver aids, ABS, traction, etc etc. they are additional safety features.

As to manual versus auto, well i prefer manual, but my daily driver cars are auto. People who can't drive a manual, I would say pity them, as they are missing out on something great, but I would of said in the future all cars will be auto, and that's a UK view, somewhere that autos were not mainstream until recent years and are generally only sold in luxury brands.

Being able to control a rear wheel drive car whilst power sliding (drift) it round a corner is great fun. Something the nanny computer won't let you do unless you turn it off, using the clutch to start a power slide is something you simply can not do in an auto. A semi auto, maybe, but not a full auto.

Neil

 

Same here piasano

 

I have nothing against passive systems that work with the driver to avoid trouble or enhance the driving experience. Ultimately, it is up to the driver to take action.

I'm just not a fan of the active systems that drive the car for you. And, unfortunately, that is the current direction Ferrari has chosen.

If Ferrari would focus more on passive (not active), then maybe they would attract a better driver. Maybe. It certainly would result in less expensive and more interesting cars.

Passive vs Active examples:

1) Passive would warn you of impending impact in front of you and the speed differential; Active would automatically brake the car w/o giving details.
2) Passive would warn you that your car is about to execute an over-steer, as it is losing grip; active would automatically brake to prevent over-steer w/o you even knowing

 

+1!

After experiencing the advanced 'nanny' in my 2015 STI, I've changed my opinion. Like many I was a fan of using driver skill to keep the car straight and on track...but the Active Torque Vectoring just helps so much with turn in and rotation, wow. No matter how skilled I could never brake each tire independently to get the car to rotate faster. That is just fun! I'm embracing modern tech and using it as designed...but it is fun to hop in my '69 Firebird too for the retro experience

 

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest more Ferraris are sold here in Southern California than any other region on the planet. I see 458s multiple times every single day driven on the streets around town. I've seen as many as four 458s parked on one block at a time. A mile from me is where the guy raced around the streets like an idiot and rather infamously now in a yellow La Ferrari. The first place I saw a Sergio Ferrari was driven on the streets by its owner (the blue one)...same with multiple Apertas. (I believe there only 100 were produced and I've seen half a dozen of them here in town.) These cars pull up and park. The door opens, and now a good percentage of the time a lady wearing 4" or greater heels, carrying a purse and maybe even a coffee, wearing a dress, emerges. This is common place, at least here. Ferrari ground zero in the U.S. I don't think women were seen like this driving Daytonas, 275s or even Dinos. Back in the day every such car I ever saw driven was driven by a guy. Moreover, if you came across such a car on a back country road odds are good you'd be in for a fun and good spirited race. (My first was against a Daytona when I was 18. I was driving a 240Z with webers, etc., and will never forget the sound of that Daytona's engine on a straight away.) Sorry, no power steering and a clutch and knowing how to be in tune with your vehicle was a separator. Ferrari, now more than ever, is a brand....a status symbol and jewelry. In speaking with a gentleman at Beverly Hills Ferrari he told me how he had a customer who had purchased a new Ferrari F12. He asked if he wanted to drive a 512TR they had just taken in. The man politely refused the offer, stating he doesn't know how to drive a stick. He said this is pretty common now, with many new Ferrari buyers not knowing how to drive cars with stick shift transmissions. My point is simply this. Once upon a time driving a Ferrari or any of the older true sports cars said something about the driver. Whether it be James Dean in his little Porsche or McQueen in his XKSS. You were a person who could work on your car (as it might not start or would die while you were driving it). A person in sync with the machine. A person who enjoyed the challenge of taking curves while steering, shifting, operating a clutch and a gas pedal....all at the same time. Perhaps this explains the growth in values in these "old school" Ferraris with manual gated shifters. Frankly, I don't think the "King of Cool" Steve McQueen would own a 458 or an F12 if he were say 40 years old and alive today. Maybe that's a good question: What would Steve McQueen drive if he was alive today?

 

He would be in the back seat of a Caddilliac Escallade with a couple young snappys

 

A slate grey Porsche 918 Spyder... which would outperform his 917.

If a dual-clutch beat a single clutch gearbox, McQueen would go with whatever was faster.

 

Nice to have any transmission, at all ...?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yCAZWdqX_Y[/ame]

 

LOL

This is one of the best things I've ever read on this forum.