The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Tom, my understanding is Ferrari did not build any of the frames in house, they were subcontracted to local chassis builders, who no doubt just pulled tubing from their stockpile, one tube could have been new, the next one used could have been sat underneath and been years older, so metal tests alone would not determine the facts, traceability of suppliers is only a recent thing in such industries, this was Italy in the 60s remember not NASA

 

Piper said the P4s used "Kape Emme Oh" KMO steel tubing, whatever that is, which was in limited supply when Enzo Ferrari agreed to let Piper make his P4 0900.

 

Curious how you apply this standard when it's convenient.

Other 'memories' that suit your argument appear to be unquestionable, irrefutable evidence!

It's hypocrisy, plain and simple.

>8^)
ER

 

Let me get this straight. Are you claiming that David Piper built this chassis from scratch and that there were absolutely zero remanents of Ferrari built chassis 0846 used in its construction?

If so, is your claim that the chassis in question was built from scratch by Piper a fact or just your opinion?

 

Your logic against Steve on this is really quite amusing.

 

That's what David Piper claims and Jim's evidence that his chassis is the real, original 0846 has now been disproved so what is the logical conclusion?

 

First off, nothing has been disproved.

Second, then this is just your opinion and you have no actual factual information to back this up, just more hearsay, is that an accurate assessment?

 

If you're sure of this I will volunteer to let him know.

 

It's not hearsay at all. I have been corresponding with Christian Huet, author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS copied and cited in Jim's 0846 pdf and I have his permission to share what he has told me in writing as I also have from Mauro Forghieri. Pay attention, Vincent.

 

That's fine.
However,

Pay attention, Steve.

 

Saying David Piper said A,B, or C is hearsay.

Claiming David Piper built this from scratch without any factual information is pure amateur hour.

You have stated nothing but opinion. Nothing has been proven.

Focus your attention on making statements that are factual, MiuraSVU instead of claiming that these opinions are factual.

And until

You have zero idea if David Piper built this frame from scratch as you claim.

One more thing, until Christian makes the statement, not you, it is ALSO! heresay. And even if he does that does not prove 0846's remains weren't used. It is just a piece of the puzzle.

So zip your zipper back up, you are claiming fact when all you have is opinion.

Pay attention to reality Miura.

 

Much of Jim's evidence are the TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS written by Christian Huet who has stated that these very same TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS cited in in Jim's pdf do not describe Jim's chassis. This evidence has therefore been negated.

Pay attention, Dave.

 

One slice does not make a pie Steve o. Even if this was proven as fact, which it has not been, in a court of law a murderer is not proven innocent due to one piece of information being debunked.

Zip that zipper kid, and quit beliving you are the judge. You are not.

Pay attention to reality MiuraSVU.

 

I will let someone else do the talking.

 

Steve, the reason I threw your quote back in your face of saying, 'Pay attention, Vince' was because I thought your remark to Vincent Vangool was rude and condescending.
I'm fine with people holding different points of view and stating their case however they see fit. But for you to chide or chastise a poster- who you clearly know is knowledgeable, whether you agree with them or not- is in poor form and does nothing but sow discord.

As to your reply to me, I'm almost at a loss as to where to start.

Do you not understand the point nerofer has made to you twice in 3 pages, to which I am referring?

Further, You say 'Much' of Jim's evidence. Much?
Do you not know the difference between the word Much and the word All?

Next you tell us that Christian Huet has stated that these very same TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS cited in in Jim's pdf do not describe Jim's chassis.
You also say Christian Huet stated [this]* in writing (in French which was translated).
*The word [this] in brackets was added by me for clarity. The parentheses are from your original post.

Do you not remember coming to the thread with your incontrovertible written evidence from Ingenere Mauro Forghieri which, upon a subsequent attempt to independently verify, did not appear to be as ironclad as you wished?

Do you feel 100% confident in the translation from French of Mr. Huet's words? 100%?

I could go on.

 

Aha that is interesting now. Thanks for sharing.

Have fun
et surtout n'oubliez pas de prendre beaucoup du plaisir
Carissimi saluti
Ben

 

Good point, of all the historians why haven't they publicly discussed this car officially? Or have they and I missed it ?

Has Marcel Masini commented on this thread ? I'm sure this could all of been put to rest by now as opposed to all the bickering.

 

What does a concourse have to do with fact? We all know of the extreme mistakes these judges have made.

 

To think that David Piper and his crew's input would 'solve' things at this point may be a tad optimistic.
If you would restate as, 'if DP and his crew are interviewed then we would have their recollections to add to the ledger', then I would be in complete agreement with you.

The first person to confirm that this is what David Piper advertised for sale would be Jim Glickenhaus.

The first person to confirm that what was advertised on Ebay as a Devin roadster but turned out to be 0202A would be Tom Shaughnessy.
$2.8M Ferrari Chassis Found

 

Nice cop out.

Do you have any fact to back up your claim that Piper built this P3 frame from scratch?

Or just more hearsay passed off as fact?

You have proven nothing. Enzo Ferrari told me this was the real 0846 . That is the equivalent of what you are doing. Just cause you say some guy said it doesn't make it so.

 

At what point then do we draw the line in the sand ?

Is the classiquic wrong too ? The judges ? The factory ? A historian like Marcel Macini ?

 

Yes, I agree. Please tell Vincent.