This is another reason why non-racing Ferraris should have manual gearboxes.

Great post! Steve McQueen would not drive paddles unless he was drinking his meals through a straw.

 

I like to think so as well. To correct a post above, any moron can drive a flappy paddle car. Using a clutch is a skill.

 

BS. McQueen was a racer. He'd be taking advantage on anything and everything if it meant more speed.

If he were alive today, he'd probably be racing a 911 RSR (which, has paddle-actuated sequential). He would probably have an old air-cooled 911 manual box car for fun, but I bet it would be a Singer...

McQueen (and others) defined cool, but if your hypothesis is correct, we'd all still

be dialing rotary phones

not have cell phones, let alone smart phones

have a full set of Encyclopedia Britannica (vs. Google)

continue to be pissed that our 8-track tapes melted in the sun

be watching our choice of 3 over-the-air TV networks

dying younger (for want of MRI, CT, et al)

etc etc.

technology moves on....if it's better, cheaper, faster, it will tend to be adopted, even if some people protest.

Obviously, if you love classical music and violins, there is no replacing a master playing a Stradivarius. But does that mean the electric guitar is crap?

If you love shifting gears, there are still plenty of choices (gated 355, new Corvette) - though, regulation and commercial realities, plus people's choices (i.e. put your money where your mouth is) are dictating a continued progression.

BTW - I've seen, known and driven with a lot of manual gearbox drivers on track. Sure, they can work the gearbox and pedals, and to do it well, at the limit - is a rare skill. However, just being able to drive a manual gearbox is NFW any evidence that they are "better drivers".

For the record - I recently picked up a 6speed 355 for the specific reason of enjoying a bit of "old school". The car is an absolute joy, the gearbox is the center of experience. But it is intellectually dishonest to say it's "better".

just my $0.02

 

If using a clutch is skill than holding a constant speed without cruise control is another. As is turning left.... or right... or riding a bike. Being able to drive a 3 pedal car does not make you Schumacher... it doesn't even really seperate you from the rest of the crowd. I can count to 10 and so can my 20 month old... we both hold the same skills I suppose.

 

.

Agreed

That would be better, save the effort for important issues or wait until we are face to face

That would be better. I do not need to be some big companies/govt data point. It can wait.

The tactile experience is important, like driving with a stick!

Agreed

This would be perfect. You think that more TV shows are the best progression?

Agreed.

[/QUOTE]

 

now this made me laugh.

Ok, so what about the 911 RSR part?

 

Let's use the right analogies though.

We'd still be:
* using sailing boats and sailing yachts --> yes, still happens
* using mechanical watches instead of digital --> yes, still happens
* using bicycles with pedals and gears instead of electric / gas driven --> yes, still happens
* Playing basketball with leather ball on hardwood...
* Wearing cufflinks, buttons and laces instead of velcro everywhere

There are many cases in recreation, fashion, and fun generally, that the latest and greatest doesn't eclipse the traditional. Some writers still write by pen, even those who grew up with computers around.

Some of my favorite modern cars have DCT and I'm fine with that. But there are joys of driving a manual car that get lost in switching to automatic. The performance loss for a recreational drive is frankly inconsequential.

BTW, I have to say smart phones are something of an abomination on this planet in the way the technology has taken over people (from utility to obsession/compulsion). Ever notice how pathetic people look walking down the street with their eyes glued to their screens? Or out at dinner and checking their phones constantly? I have an "eye"phone, an apple watch, ipads, and all the latest gadgets, but I consciously avoid using them as much as possible. Sometimes technology improves lives, sometimes it actually degrades them.

For the use of a car as pure recreation, I think a manual is more fun and will always be more fun. I have 2 stick cars, and 1 ultra modern DCT. The stick cars on most days are more "fun", though I enjoy the brutal push in the back of my new car.

In terms of the OP's point... I dunno how much I agree but there is no doubt a shift in the brand's image overall (or at least the degree to which it is more about the brand / status). The prices really do reflect this too.

 

This.

 

As Ferrari´s big boss Amedeo Felisa said: "you purists, f***ing bunch of ******s, where were you when I spend millions developing a manual California just to sell 6 of them, fu**ing morons!!"

Well, it´s a paraphrase, as I can´t remember the exact words.

 

Sour grapes?
Hmmm to answer your question I own a BB and have for 23 years making me one of the more long term owners on this site, thats why I am boxerman.

I dont hate the Marque, but certainly hate what it has come to represent, a fashioista trinket for clowns who cant drive but like to pretend they are racers. A billboard for sheilds just in case the red car and too loud exhaust is not enough to advertise your sense of sucess.

Time was ferrari was a serious driving machine. Now they are great cars, possibly in some ways better than they ever were, and attract posuers like **** attracts flies.

Never bought my BB for heritage, or any false ferrari fanboi stuff, it was and remains an exceptionaly cool and fast car. Mine is grey too, thats way I can enjoy it without attracting unwarranted attention.

If you buy a ferrari purely because some ancestor came from Italy, that to me is a half reason. Buy it because you want to drive it like you stole it, love the sound design and feel. The heritage of the brand, its a nice add on to the extent you care, but hardley a reason to buy any hi po machine, unless its a ww2 fighter plane.

I think this thread points to people who buy cars for reasons of image over substance of the machine. Along with no manual I would say the rise of concors has ruined ferrari. If you knew how many cars get ridden in a parade from one lawn to the next without ever being DRIVEN, makes me want to cry out to the heavens in anguish.

Back to sour grapes, yes its sad that untill the recent dowturn you couldnt buy a new ferrari unless you gave the dealer some type of blow job, so most serious poeple went elsewhere, while poseurs stockbroker putzs and fashionista flocked in.

While I understand that ferrari is selling an ersatz F1 tech in their cars, and that "brands" bring premiums and volumes by which profits are made to sustain the product, I also think they have abandoned their core clientale and lost many of the experiential things that made a ferrari car so special.

At least with the 458 good design is returning, and maybe like porche they will rediscover that many serious "road" drivers love a stick for its engagement and that engagement along with exceptional motors and design is at the core DNA of what made the "brand" so special in the first place.

Frankly when people ask what I drive today I always mention the ferrari last and queitly, because to say you drive a ferrari is to be typecast with a pretty lame group, at least to the public at large.

None of which means that there are no serious ferrari owners or drivers, because there certainly are, but at this point its a quiet fringe not a mainstream.

Ever wonder why FCA accepts other marques at its track events, puzzling because 20 years ago it was ferrari only and they had no problem filling an event, yet today we need to take other marques to fill a track event, all while ferrari makes what 2-3x as many cars and they are more capable. Must say something about who ferrari caters to, who buys ferrari and why.

 

Ahh the cali, ferraris version of a chick car.

Remember when ferrari came out with the "brutal" 288 they thought such an extreme machine would not sell, had to be begged into makign more and it spawned a whole genre.

I ronicaly turbos may be the path back to offering a stick. Its a relaity that lower Tq high rev/hp motor is going to work best with apaddle and lots of closely stacked gears. I cant see a 458 mtoor workign with a stick.

But a turbo motor with lower revs and gobs of TQ, why not have a stick, after all with all that low down Tq, at least on the road you wont be behind the motor in terms of shifting.

Still waiting for the ferrari version of the 4c, but with proper suspension, the TT masser V6 and a stick. I think its going to happen, esp as they announced they wnat to get to 9k cars per year.

 

Agree.

Nostalgia for inferior technology is a modern disease.

 

Apparently.

But for the rest of us, who understand that there are varying levels of difficulty in driving skills, there is no comparison between the "skills" you cite and actual driving prowess. How many current Ferrari buyers are proficient with a manual gearbox? Is Beiber, or whichever of the Kartrashians that was mentioned earlier? Flappy paddles are quicker on the track but you cannot deny that they can be operated by the lowest common denominator, unlike manual 'boxes.

I wonder how many here espousing the virtues of flappy paddles even know how to properly exploit those on the track. If you can't be bothered to learn heel/toe or double clutching, etc, there's a very good chance you can't be bothered to learn how to threshold LFB, which is actually a bigger advantage to a flappy paddle car than is the rapid shift times. I know this because I have been driving flappy paddle car in anger on the track since the 355 F1 came out.

Fortunately, Porsche still offers a true performance car with a manual 'box: Porsche to Launch 911 R with GT3 Engine and Manual Gearbox ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog It's a safe bet we won't see any of the poseur crowd buying these... because they wouldn't have the skill set to drive it.

 

So you wear a digital watch then.

Mqueen drove an XKSS long into the 60s, in fact I think untill he died by when it was totaly obsolete. He just couldnt find another car that did what it did for him, even though the moderns were faster more comfortable etc. He kept the xkss not the others. He also loved vintage bikes and aircraft.

I am pretty sure Mqueen would not trade in his xkss for a 488, and I am also pretty sure that Mqueen late night on Mulholland woudl smake 99.9% of 488 drivers with his XKSS.

Sometimes a lot gets lost in the translation to modern. Elertic windows and starters are great. But electric seats, are they better than say lightweight buckets for a soprting driver.

Would you rather be driving a "better more modern" GTR on a canyon road or the XKSS. Would you rather be driving a F40 on the same road or a faster 488.

Racing is purely about laptimes, road drivign is very much experiential along with epic speed. I would rather have a car that is way faster than you can drive on street, but that is also highly viceral alive and experiential(F40), than an even faster car driven by computersGTR.

 

As has been discussed a bunch here, If people would buy manuals, Ferrari would make them. Nobody did so they moved on to new technology. That ship has sailed.

 

That alone would of been a good reason to keep the cars 3 pedal.

 

Modern tech vs old school.

In vitro fertilization vs....well you get the idea.

 

“Well I think a racing car is something very special, almost in the breed of an animal. Not only is it like an animal it’s also like a woman. It’s very sensitive, it’s very nervous, it’s very highly strung…”

Cornering is like bringing a woman to climax.”

Jackie Stewart.

 

The California is a Chick car if Ferrari ever made one.
The California is the least likely car for an owner to want a manual.

 

Where in the world do you get that? I'm sure that a fair number of new Ferrari owners maybe inherited money but I would say that the "vast, vast majority" of them earned the money themselves. I have to be honest, I know very few people who inherited any real money and none of them own Ferraris, so my sample size is very small. However, I do know a few other guys like me who invented technologies, started companies from scratch, sold their companies, etc. (all of those or some of those) and rewarded themselves with Ferraris.

Besides, you do realize that we live in a golden age where guys and girls my age (late 30's/early 40's) have the ability to make money that our parents could never even dream of making, due to the economics of the technology sector. It's not easy money by any means, but when you're making a difference in the world, you get rewarded properly.

To your point, I would say that most of them bought them as four wheeled Gucci handbags and very few bought them because they had the itch from when they were seven years old and had all the models and the posters, etc. but the guys I know who have multiple Ferraris all are real car guys.

Regardless, none of them inherited any money and most of us came from very modest means (my dad drives a Hyundai, if that tells you anything).

 

Really? The vast majority are not 'lucky sperm club' members. Most have busted their collective rear ends to be successful and reward themselves.

Believe it or not, we can actually work to afford things.

 

Have to second this. I inherited some tools and a couple grand when I was 20. Bought a new 430 in 2005. I can't think of any Ferrari owner who bought with inherited money either.

Dave

 

Enzo wasn't too interested in what his consumer wanted. Maybe we should celebrate that we can't get what we want. It's a company that does what it pleases, consumers don't have a say. If the company bent to the pressure of the few people who wanted a manual transmission then how far would they bend to some group of people you disagree with. If the company allowed the people to speak then they would take a Fiat econo car and badge it up and everyone could own a Ferrari.

Ferrari is about racing. The current offerings of transmission are faster than manual. That's the way it is.