Was just looking through some classified ads to get an idea of the 360 market. I limited my search to "manual" transmission cars. When I opened up individual ads indicating a manual trans, the pictures showed the F1. I expected to see a stick shift. Many ads were like this. I don't consider the F1 to be a manual transmission, is this incorrect? I figure if it changes gears itself, it's not a "manual". If the F1 is a "manual", how can you limit searches to 3 pedal cars? Hmmm.
You cannot. If the seller puts in the description it is a manual, then that is what appears. There is an alarming number of sellers who list F1 cars as manuals. Because there is not a category in the selling sites for selecting anything except "manual" or "automatic". And, since the F1 is not an automatic in the sense that it does not have a torque converter, sellers think that listing it as a manual gives the car more of "sport" car image. What I find is that sellers of true manual cars tend to indicate the fact somewhere in the description. Good luck in your quest. Steve
But they're not "automatics" either. Problem is there is no "automated manual" option with car sales sites.
Robert- Remember that the transmissions in 3 pedal and F1 Ferraris are identical, only the shifter and clutch actuation are different. So all of them have manual transmissions, but some of them have electro-hydraulic actuation thrown in.
Agreed though if the only two options to list are manual and automatic the F1 should be listed as automatic. It does have an automatic mode. The stick and clutch three pedal do not. As previously stated, the owners/dealers know what they are doing.
I agree that an F1 should be listed as an automatic. Anyone who knows F-cars, will understand that a modern Ferrari listed as an automatic is an F1 or DCT car. To see how stupid this is ... do an Autotrader search for a 458 Italia. Then click to show only manual transmission cars ... I found four listings. In all four, they are private owner listings. I don't know if they all really know what they are doing. For example, this listing ... http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=85259&endYear=2016&keywordPhrases=18301139&showcaseOwnerId=83093&startYear=1981&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=408710045&showcaseOwnerId=83093&captureSearch=true&fromSIP=D9CF86943B64D7009709FF62281F1AFE&showToolbar=true&Log=0 2011 458 listed as manual transmission. In the description of the car, the listing goes on to say, " ... this 360 comes equipped with CCM ... " The car is listed as private seller and then it says car is sold through Temptation Motors. Seems to me that Temptation Motors is a not listing correctly and by listing as private seller when in fact they are a dealer is being a bit dishonest. The slip up inserting 360 into the description tells me they were copy and pasting boilerplate and forgot to correct the entry of "360" into a 458 addvert. Steve
Why do manual 360/430 owners also refer to their cars as "6-speed?" "My 360 or 430 6-speed manual is so and so..." Drop the 6-speed, they ALL are!
Yes, they are ALL 6-speed just as they are ALL "manuals" It's simply a way to differentiate the "row your own" cars from the F1s...they'll also use the abbreviation 6MT...
If the driver does not operate the clutch and select the gear, then it's not a manual transmission. If the transmission is capable of shifting entirely on its own without driver input then it's by definition automatic, whether it uses a torque converter or electrohydraulic actuators and a clutch or anything else.
No clutch and no shift lever = automatic no matter what is under the car. You can also manually shift a real automatic, would you call it manual?
The most pointless threads on fchat! By 'they know what they are doing' do you mean F1 sellers are trying to con people into reading the ad by listing it as a manual? Just move on to the next...... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is not pointless because it makes the process of buying a specific car a lot harder than it needs to be. Someone looking exclusively for and F1 or a 3 pedal cannot easily filter to their choice. If I were a seller of an F1 car, I'd list it as automatic.
But it's not an automatic transmission, so why list it as such? It's exactly the same manual transmission as the 6MT car, but with the addition of a computer controlled actuator. If anything, the problem doesn't lie with owners of F1 equipped cars, it lies with eBay etc. for not including a third category of transmission, thereby keeping up with the times.
I have learned that if you want to piss off a Ferrari driver with an "F1" tranny, just call it an automatic. Never mind the fact that the word "automatic" describes the operation and no where in Webster can one find anything about torque converters or lack thereof. The term "automated manual" is an oxymoron of the highest degree. Porsche refers to PDK models as automatics as do most of the owners I know. Ferrari is very careful not to refer to their trannies as automatics, a clever marketing trick IMO that allows owners to avoid the stigma of driving a sports car with an automatic. Dave
Ah, the age old automated manual vs. automatic debate. Bottom line: an automated manual transmission is not an "automatic" transmission because automatic transmissions have a torque converter and use a fluid coupling, not a friction clutch like an automated manual, to change gears. Just because an automated manual can be operated in an automatic mode, does not make it an automatic transmission.
F1's are absolutely manual transmissions, but I agree with the original complaint. There needs to be another category for F1/DSG/PDK/SMG/DCT whatevers/
F1 is a manual transmission. People get confused sometimes just because it has a floppy paddles. Thats why I like it. Its a manual less the left pedal.
LOL. Not sure about the 360's lever, but in the F430 F1 cars have a button with an "A" on it. I'd love to know what it stands for if it's not "Automatic". Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Conventional automatic transmissions have clutches in them so that definition is no good. So the only sensible definition is that an "automatic" transmission has a TCU that can shift gears without driver intervention and a "manual" transmission can not. Many automatic transmissions (F1 included) are pretend manual transmissions where the driver signals the TCU to shift gears. Telling the TCU to shift versus mechanically shifting gears by hand are two very different processes.
If it has a stick coming out of the center tunnel with a polished aluminium ball and a gated shift pattern around it with a honest to goodness three pedal on the floor board it is a MANUAL TRANSMISSION. I don't care how the other one is called. it is a matter of preference. I have driven both and the manettino gear changing is just as wonderful as the manual. I have a 360 three pedal.
