This is another reason why non-racing Ferraris should have manual gearboxes.

After 15' of training i bet she'd be giving up saying it's not for her.

Lol at your last comment

 

I spent a good part of the weekend driving up the Merritt and the Palisades. Spent one day in my new baby (MP4-12C) and the other in my slightly older baby (911).

While doing some pulls here and there, there are few opportunities to open up or push a car that has ludicrous mode type speed. Especially when every few miles I see a deer near the side of the road.

The pleasure of my manual 911 is that I can engage in driving actively more frequently... Off ramps I heel toe downshift and manage balance the weight shifting of the car, taking the curve with some nice speed and holding the right line. When I do accelerate, the clutch / shift action can be done very quickly, as I listen to the engine speed to maximize power through the shift points. Regardless of how easy it may be to learn manual, the threshold to using how to use it effectively is undoubtedly higher. And yes, I can and do left foot brake.

I am guessing the Kardashians and many other "I'll show you what I drive" sorts are not looking for those traits at all. When I looked for used cars (I only buy used) I have come across a LOT of owners that clearly don't know the cars and I am guessing, don't really know the nuances of how to really drive a car.

Having the cars in stick shift only in the past certainly weeded out some of the people looking at it for more an image thing. I am certain of that. Some cars more than others.

I cannot imagine a casual driver choosing a Carrera GT as a pure "show off" car. If they do, they likely won't get much joy out of it.

All the off-topic stuff about the buyer audience, luck of birth, etc, I still stand by but won't address further. Clearly touches many nerves. But the general audience for these cars today is certainly broader than in the past and the emphasis is certainly more on the branding and badge.

Not a surprise, as that is what typically happens over time. Even RR, originally known for the craftmanship and bespoke nature, is going off shared platforms now. Maybach is most famous now for being cited in rappers lyrics as depicting the pinnacle of "show off" success. Ferrari is no different and the advent of DCT has been incredibly beneficial to them in opening up the model more broadly, where the performance and useability parts have actually converged (whereas in the past, you had to choose either ease of use or accessibility OR performance). From a business model point of view, this was the optimal outcome.

 

I agree.

I even stated this in one of my posts, though between too many other words.

It comes from both sides. The studies show that the majority come from one of those sides, however. There are many factors at play.

People use their own personal experiences to explain the broader world and that's a mistake. I used to believe the world was more meritocratic. I am not being negative either, as my own life path has been one of those "american dreams" type situations. But my path is not typical, and I've had some good fortune along the way. I'm not going to push my points any more on this. And nothing wrong with people who start with a little extra help either, it isn't a "bad" thing at all.

 

Appreciate your response, Sean. Thanks, too. Your points well taken.

 

I had to run errands today and one of those was to return my wife's new curling iron. Saw these while there.

Sadly, the only 6-speed manual with the Ferrari name available today...
http://www.amazon.com/BaByliss-Volare-Ferrari-Designed-Engine/dp/B00V2HC2TC/ref=sr_1_14?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1445274648&sr=1-14&keywords=ferrari+hair+dryer

 

Hi Super_Dave,

I know you are respectfully trying to distance yourself and close your earlier comments, but please I urge you to continue our discourse.

I find your background fascinating. You mentioned your dad came from humble beginnings, and I assume was able to provide you the foundation to eventually attend several Ivy League schools and obtain multiple graduate degrees from said schools. Now that you've disclosed you own a MClaren (great choice btw) - It would appear you are doing well for yourself! I sincerely commend you sir! (not being facetious). I argue it is due to your hard work, initiative, and yes I acknowledge, some luck - you've been able to join what I would argue as the very affluent group you referred to earlier in this thread.

My question is this, if you or your dad were so upwardly mobile to the point where you are now friends with several billionaires, I am just wondering why despite your own American Dream (your own words) story, you felt that the notion is exceedingly rare and myth? I would expect if one were able to come from humble beginnings to owning a MClaren and hanging out with billionaires - one would have the opposite viewpoint having done it yourself?

The only thing I can think of is perhaps you or your father won the lottery or got an inheritance? This would align with your previous assertions, wealth through luck/inheritance.

I make no judgement if you won the lottery or received an inheritance. It would make your previous comments much more logical to me.

Cheers

 

What if you want 1) modern safety equipment and 2) crash protection and 3) modern engine performance with 4) manual transmissions?

 

I will PM instead rather than continuing this on here. You will have all your questions answered, including on lottery winnings.

 

GT4

 

Got it!! Okay, I'm going to stop now. It all make sense. I get it. Well congrats to you and your family!!

I hope it was the 590MM powerball.

Cheers

 

If he was alive today he'd be 85 years old, and skilled or not, I highly doubt he'd be slashing through the turns at high speed in a Ferrari.

85 is OLD, really old. I have a father in law who is sharp as a tack mentally, but his physical skills are not real sharp, and his driving (yes he still drives) reaction times are not great.

SOOOO... ENOUGH WITH THE STEVE MCQUEEN STUFF, ok?

And even so, I'd think he'd go paddles, looking for every competitive edge he could get. For McQueen racing was about winning.

D

 

The logic is simple here:

"Drivers" will enjoy DCT or manual, just for different reasons. For outright performance, DCT wins hands-down. For tracking a car, DCT can be a lot of fun too. On the other hand, the joy of manual control via clutch is great for sunday drives feeling part of the process.

"Non drivers / attention seekers / brand conscious buyers" will pick the DCT every day of the week. Because it is easy and doesn't get in the way of looking good.

So Steve McQueen... he would likely appreciate BOTH MT and DCT, just for different purposes and would likely own both kinds of cars. [And at 85 years old, would like favor DCT since easier on the hip].

 

Buy a Z/28. Modern car with a bit of backward tech thrown in for good measure. Buy it while you still can.

 

Can I throw out an argument for argument sake?

What if... just what if... the skill of piloting one of these ultra-fast, high end sports cars with a flappy paddle at 10/10ths was an actual skill? (Oh My Goodness heads are going to EXPLODE) For example... lets say... a guy can take a la ferrari and drive it to 9/10th or 10/10ths is he not skilled because the car has a flappy paddle?

I would venture to say that no driver could get all the power out of a la ferrari with a manual transmission and put down a lap time even within 2 seconds of a flappy paddled alternative.

It seems as if many 3 pedal fan boys are trying to say... my manual transmission 360 takes more skill to drive on my bull**** roads where I live or maybe even the one time a year I take it on a fun back road than the guy who can extract every last ounce out of a car with a flappy paddle.

In other words the 3 pedal fan boy in his 360 (which by the way is one of the most unferrari cars ever made) who goes to an autocross and takes out 3 cones and is still dragging those cones under the nose of his car at the next cars and coffee is more skilled and cooler than the guy who ran a 355 challenge car with an F1 tranmission. It seems that if this is the definition of skilled, or cool or enthusiast count me out.

I have a garage full of classics, and I love six speeds... I prefer the manual transmission... but the crazy over the top romanticizing of the 3 pedal car on these modern cars just seems foolish to me. Just remember fan boys, some people knew the cars were cool before your coffee cooled... and we welcome all the people who enjoy the car hobby and support it wether it be 2 pedals or 3. (just keep that selfdriving crap outta here)

 

Well said!

 

The 355 Challenge is a manual car. Just saying.

And I own a 360. It's a lot Ferrari. It's more Ferrari that many people ever realized, including myself. However, it is a manual so maybe that helps.

 

Lolz

But I do believe that there was one F1 355 which was raced with the challenge series. Maybe he is referring to that one.

 

I've been in a 355 MT and F1 the same day at Road Atlanta - one of the toughest tracks to race on. (Lots of jersey barriers).

The MT required a bit more effort, but both cars were impressive. The 355 (high maintenance and all) is a great track car. It was the first Ferrari that really made me believe Ferrari was serious about providing exceptional sports cars for the real world.

The 360 MT can still be had for little or no premium and is an excellent value for the performance you get. Maintenance seems low too.

 

Wow, not sure why you felt the need to attack 360 MT owners but I'd recommend taking a chill pill.

Driving takes skill, be it a Chevrolet Aztek (also require courage!) or a LaF. I love the MT on my car because of the feel, not because it requires more or less skill and I'd venture to say that most people who enjoy driving an MT would share the same opinion.


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How is the 360 "unferrari?"

 

Beats me. The price on my 360 was Ferrari, and the maintenance costs and repairs are definitely Ferrari. Sounds like a Ferrari, looks like a Ferrari.....?

 

The skill to drive almost any car at 10/10ths is high. But I don't think that's the real point.

It reminds me of musical instruments. I play a few instruments (some with more proficiency than others). I've also seen "rankings" of the most difficult and easiest instruments to play.

I find them amusing because they hold almost no validity if someone thinks about it for a moment... yes, there is a "threshold" difficulty to beginning to learn a particular instrument, often for very different reasons. An oboe is difficult because of its double reed and just making a sound that doesn't sound like a dying duck is an accomplishment. Once mastered, however, it becomes very similar in difficulty to master as a saxophone...

An acoustic guitar for a young child can be very challenging because of the scale of the neck and frets, and because of the strength and toughness of skin necessary to depress strings and form chords.

A violin is difficult to start on because of the need to build an ear or very fine muscle memory due to lack of set frets.

Piano may be easiest of all to learn on because of its linear nature and the relative physical ease of playing it.

Now, once you become proficient on any of these instruments, the sky is the limit in terms of how technical or creative someone can be. The "skill" requirements or "difficulty" to play any of these at the very highest levels is equal -- if anything, the only real determining factor should be the "pool" of players that pursue the instruments (the larger the group that plays an instrument, particularly with formal instruction, the harder it will become to reach the pinnacle).

So, for sake of MT vs DCT... obviously at the highest levels the skills required are equal to really master driving a car, regardless of transmission. MT is clearly the higher hurdle to get started on, and all else being equal, the ability to reach a given level of performance will be a bit more challenging. But I think most people just enjoy the process of driving stick at well below 10/10ths (which, by definition on public roads wouldn't be possible or safe).

If everyone was after simply performance, we would all drive the latest 911 turbos or GT-Rs (at least below the "super car" range).

 

don't blame the manufacturers... purchasers are voting with their money... any manufacturer would be glad to meet the purchaser's demands... the manufacturers are about making a profit while meeting demand... there is no point to offer something that is not being ordered... Ferrari's pitiful stats for MT have been disclosed here several times... the demand is essentially non existent... with no volume, forcing realistic MT pricing above that of a DCT, the higher MT pricing pushes purchasers to the DCT

the whiners are crying, when they need to be placing orders...

 

This has gotta be the most retarded post of the year. The 360 isnt a ferrari ? When i bougt my 360 I also considered a 355,550 or a 575. All were fantastic but it was the beauty and feel of the 360 that sold me. It's absolutely incredible and my only regret is how much the 550 and 575 have exploded in value. Apart from the financial aspect I like my 360 more than the rest and I could've bought any of them.

 

yeah - this was an strange post. I have no clue why "technom" would imply the 360 is 'unFerrari'. I've heard people say just that about my car, but to say that about a 360 is new to me in the 15+ years it's been out.

Would love to hear what his justification is for such an odd statement.