Why are 6spd manual cars going through the roof??

b/c people realize that floppy paddle looks good on paper but takes the fun out of driving. Same thing has been happening to Porsche GT3s for awhile.

 

599 manuals very few
430 manuals not many
360 enough

All are last of an era ...


Reasons for Porsche are for another section and time.

 

I would love to know how you define "lots."

Less than 25% of 360s are manual. About 5% of F430s are manual. Depending on who you talk to, either 29 or 33 599s in the whole world are manual.

At the end of the day, the laws of supply and demand rule - even in Canada.

 

Ditto. I love it when that gets written... reality distortion field. If there were "lots" then they would be easy to buy and wouldn't be priced so high right? Everyone seems to confuse total number produced with US allocation.

599's 30 or so were manual (3-pedal) for the US market.

430's, assuming about 18,000 cars produced and half made it to the US, 9,000 cars total and lets say 5% are manual (i.e. not F1) then 450 cars. For 360's assuming double the amount 900-1800 cars.. for a nation of 300,000,000 people. Yeah "lots".

The same reality distortion field of living in South Florida and S. California where Ferrari's are "everywhere" as "common as a Prius" and "everyone has one".

Edit: Just looked on cars.com and you can't find a red 360 manual (3 -pedals) with an asking price of under $95k! Wow!

 

our money is getting weak. Then it is time to buy art. Ferrari is art you can drive. so if it gets bad we can trade the 360 for a cow,pig and some veggies. Hay red how about NART blue? Talking rare.
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Having owned both there is no way I can say that an F1 takes the "fun out of driving". It is different but it is still manually shifting and allows for both hands to stay on the wheel with your left foot available to brace you in the high G corners. No fun? Hardly.

 

Why? They are the end of an era. The gated cars offer a driving experience that is completely different than a paddle shifted car. It takes a lot of skill and practice to be smooth, fast and efficient with a clutch pedal and a stick. Most anyone can learn to be reasonably proficient with a paddle in 30 minutes or less.

 

Since I own one, I've been watching this trend with some interest. I conclude there is a lot of investor interest in the car market, Ferraris in particular. Consider another model I'm very familiar with: 328 GTB. A rare car in the US that sold for roughly the same as GTS for decades. A low mileage '89 was worth 60-70K for about 15 years. Then the investors came. They wanted rarity. So all of a sudden, GTBs were worth way more than GTSs. 89s were, all of sudden, selling for 200K! Enthusiast end users did not do this. There is the expectation of profit that drives these prices. Unfortunately, I sold mine just before prices took off. Now they are moving on to more modern cars and they still want rarity. 3 pedals fit the bill. Interestingly, there are now fewer for sale as prices rise. I think owners are reluctant to sell into a rising market. When supply increases, that would be an indication the top is near. I'm actually hoping they don't push 3 pedal 430 prices so high that I have to make a decision on whether or not to let it go because I don't know what I would buy to replace it.

Dave

 

Collectible speculation. Nothing more. These 430's have been on the market for as many as 10 years now, the 360's even longer. Notice the skyrocketing prices have only occurred in the last 2 years? Just happened to line up with the announcement that there would be no more MT cars. Nobody is going to sell me that it took 10+ years to realize that F1 trans wasn't as engaging. lol

Value is going up because there will be no more. Similar to the value of a painting following the artists death. People want in on the action now and that pushes prices higher.

 

..

 

4749 manual shifter 360s, 16379 total 360s (not including CS models), so 28.99% three pedals. Coming from the V12 world with 3083 550s and 2064 575Ms (not counting Barchettas and Superamericas) where only 246 575Ms had manual shifters, 4749 manual shifter 360s definitely counts as "lots".

 

It's easy to sit on the sideline and say it's "lots." When you're in the market looking for a manual 360 or F430 and you realize that it's not that easy to find a well cared for example that fits the bill when there are "lots" made, you're happy to pay up for the right car. It's never as hard to find a good F1 car because there are so many more from which to choose and you can be more patient with price.

That's what creates the disparity in price in between the manual cars (even though there are "lots") vs the F1 transmission cars on 360s and F1s.

I had a similarly hard time finding a great 2001 550 as well. And judging by the number of unsolicited offers that I turn away for mine, I'm guessing others do as well. But at 3083 cars, there are "lots" of 550s too, so why do people try so hard to buy mine? After all, Terry, there are "lots" out there.

 

Nobody said it was easy to find the perfect one, we were just correcting the numbers. Hard to find a good 550 or F1 575M now without a pretty good premium and 3 pedal 575Ms are pretty much rich men's and speculators' toys now. Never mind about a 3 pedal HGTC. Much easier to find one of the ~12,000 F1 360s or similar number of F1 F430s that passes muster.

Note for the 550 and 575M, there have been lots of fence sitters waiting for the perfect Ferrari who ended up priced out of the market. Same thing could happen to the 3 pedal 360 and F430. So for someone who has to have everything on their wish list, you might want to rethink that strategy.

 

Perfectly said.

 

A picture is worth a thousand words. Enough Said. Nothing like a gated pedal Ferrari.
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So there are 4749 manual shifter 360s in the US? Or is that number worldwide allocation with US numbers in the 2300 range? And if rarity is the driver.. do F1 550's command a premium? (causally asking as I haven't followed the market)

 

No such thing as an F1 550...

 

Did some research after I wrote it and this is true. I guess its the same as wanting a manual 575... as most seem to be F1.

Just something about calling 10 3 pedal cars on any of the websites as being "lots" available that comes of sounding silly.

 

While I find a manual sports car more fun to drive than an automatic or paddle-shifted transmission I think there's an element of lore and momentum at play here as well.

A big part of what seems to drive sports car values is what is notionally considered cool, significant and desirable by enthusiasts.

The manual sports car is now the "purists" choice. Perhaps it always was but there's a status associated with it now.

I would imagine that this is pretty set for at least my lifetime (another 40 years or so) but probably not much beyond that. A generation may grow-up without ever driving a manual sports car - the dream cars of their youth may all be clutchless - which means the manual may not represent the same thing to them as it does some of us.

That said, if demand stays high for 40-50 years then buying any of the aforementioned is about the cheapest way to own a sports car there will ever be. It may also suggest that we will see more cars like the Porsche GT4 - enthusiast toys that are manual only despite the fact they can't outperform a clutchless corollary.

Just my $20 (I'd say $0.02 but these are Ferraris we're talking about...markup applied;-)

 

You are right Curt there are not "lot's" of three pedal cars or we wouldn't be having the conversation. Some were made, some were crashed, some were dispersed worldwide. Whichever country you are in that defines your market place there will not be "lots" to choose from if you are a buyer. All that aside, the cars are in need of worthy drivers and caretakers, not people chasing rarity.

 

Because it's the last of a dying breed. The F430 is the last one to have a manual. I can't see the day when Ferrari will ever do it again.

 

How many are left?

Many have been destroyed for various reasons.

 

technically it was the california. The california to my knowledge was the very last to have a 6 speed.

BUT... since Ferrari makes more and more cars... never say never. and even when they say never... don't believe them.

 

18 months in 2000 to find my 3-pedal and well worth the wait!


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