The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Sure, the car is a bit of a bitsa, and I understand your point that it was later assembled versus surviving intact through time. It is what it is and I believe the best case scenario for making it whole was executed but that does not mean it was manufactured in the U.S.A., these parts were manufactured at Ferrari, the car was built in England (frame possibly manufactured by Piper) and then restored/built (not manufactured) in the U.S.A.

 

I understand this. And agree that it adds some weight but in the end the parts came together. The parts are the right ones. There is a good chance that many of the parts ran together or at least raced in a P3/P4.

Is it the best case scenario when it comes to provenance? No. But IMO the best that could be done to build up the car was accomplished and I would think people would be thrilled that what survived did and that it was assembled the best it could be.

Sure, it's a bitsa, but it is also Genuine Ferrari manufactured parts that most likely raced together in the day. It is (with the question of the frame) genuine Ferrari (not manufactured in the U.S.A.) and should be regarded as such.

 

I agree with that. But to say it was manufactured in the U.S.A. is incorrect.

 

+1. I saw what you wrote. Ludicrous.

 

I guess it matters on your definition of manufacture.

I don't look at a guy that buys one 308 chassis and sources used factory parts from here and there to complete the car as a manufacturer of 308's. I look at that guy as a builder.

To me a manufacturer either starts from scratch or builds on a large scale.

 

Not a snowballs chance in hell of Marcel making a comment about the car on here.

He normally very quickly comes on board a thread when he has definitive information on the subject at hand.

His silence on the matter of 0846 is deafening, and I doubt no one at all blames him for that stance.

He publically sat in, and no doubt admired, a car Jim owns, that Jim has decided to call 0846, that is the sum total of any public endorsement to date he has made as to whether Jims 0846 has any link to Ferraris 0846.

 

Woof woof!!!

 

By a "First Rank Witness" I think they mean a First Hand witness. Meaning Foghieri is an expert on these as far as design and development, but he didn't actually take torch and tongs to BUILD or REPAIR these. That was done in the field. First hand witness is the person that did the repair, and says, 'Yeah, I welded that back in the day'. It's also possible that the repairs and modifications were done to a working design, in the field as they offered up a P4 engine the first time, to make it work.

Perry

 

If you are going to counter the definitive statement by MF then at least come up with something stronger than ifs, buts, and maybes!

 

I understand, I was just pointing out what First hand versus second hand info I. Mauro is an expert as is Piper, however, they weren't with this car 24-7.

Perry

 

Agree. Marcel, and a few others could put this thread to rest very quickly. Not sure why they refuse to do so.

 

I'm really not understanding what the risk part of it is..if it is proven the car is as Jim says great, if it is proven that it isn't what's the harm?

 

No risk to Jim but if Marcel gives it the stamp of approval and endorses it as 100% 0846 beyond a shadow of a doubt and someone rolls a chassis out that actually is 0846 then his reputation as a Ferrari expert is tarnished. Signing off on Jim's car as 0846 will do nothing to enhance Marcell's standing as "The" Ferrari expert thus...no reward.

 

This is true of the many cars that Marcel has authenticated or outed as a fake for no reward in the past.

 

I would have to agree with this. Why would this car be any different to any other car he/they have authenticated or not? Is it because of who owns it? Are people afraid of Jim?

 

A slight correction to my english having re read the above and now unable to edit it.

I meant " I doubt anyone at all blames him for that stance" the first version could sound like the opposite!

 

Because I have a life.....

Did you see me on TV at F1??


There are copyright laws and so forth...maybe Albaco has a copy......

 

Pretty much it....

/thread

Marcel "knows what he knows" from documentation that he gathered, or purchased.
If the VIN file is empty, it's empty.

The is one brief point where he crossed paths with the car.
No photos...no papers.