Miura, the original supercar | Page 573 | FerrariChat

Miura, the original supercar

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Dec 5, 2006.

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  1. BBoyJmE

    BBoyJmE Formula Junior

    Jan 26, 2015
    272
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Jimmy Nahlous
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T86tRkkmxoo[/ame]

    White Miura in an ad :D

    Can't tell if it is CGI or the real deal - I work at a company as a 3D artist where we do cgi cars mixed with live action all the time for Lexus and Toyota - same thing could be done here but I think this looks more real than not.
     
  2. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    Olivier
    FANTASTIC Bruno, merci !


    Joe,

    I see this case differently...

    Will you agree it means there is no re-stamped of engine ?

    BTW, I spoke to Oracio Salvioli last week and he told me it was not easy to restamp an engine which was already stamped, it is easy to notice that modification (evidences of erasing previous number) and the factory was not doing that sort of thing.

    With lack of factory evidence, nobody can confirm Walter Wolf was 1st owner of #5092 since it is not recorded in any list... so could it be Harry Lansberg who was the 1st as it is mentionned in the factory list and later in a 2nd wave Walter Wolf ?

    Does Walter Wolf still hold factory period documents showing dates of delivery to him in january 1973 ?
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    As I said, I don't intend to add to what Ive already discussed or published. Seeing it differently is your prerogative and I accept this fully & respectfully. This subject is open to interpretation. When you publish your book, you can suggest a different view and it'll be all good with me.

    FWIW I am confident that Wolf's representation to me was 100% accurate & truthful as he had no basis to misrepresent, and it was separately corroborated by one Signor Gian Paolo Dallara who introduced me to him. I'll leave this topic at that.
     
  4. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
    345
    Full Name:
    Ben
    Oh that sounds like interesting news: another Lamborghini bible to come soon ?

    Have fun
    et surtout n'oubliez pas de prendre beaucoup du plaisir
    La Miura sarà una macchina che rimane nella storia del automobile. Le altre magari se cancellano, la Miura non.
    Carissimi saluti
    Ben
     
  5. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

    Oct 26, 2006
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    #14305 geno berns, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As we all know Lamborghini did not keep very precise records and the same goes for the color of the interior for 4906. The factory records indicate black for the interior color. Attached are pics of the car in 1994 before a full a scale restoration while owned by Bill Rozzi. Still has the US side markers that were later removed. The interior was clearly tan and not black. Bill Rice who later performed the restoration and in keeping with the car's originality retained the original color for the interior. He hired Jeff to perform the work and retaining the car's originality was most important he stated during our recent conversation. He kept the very worn out tan leather in his garage for a very long time and only put it in the garbage about 2 years ago. I wonder how many more errors the factory records contain?

    Geno
    PS notice the gold knock offs. Did the factory use two different finishing colors (anodizing)?

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  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    We've discussed this in some detail prior, and when considering all Miura variants, its clear the factory used paint (gold or silver per the wheel color), nickel-plated, chrome-plated, black anodized and one more special finish referred to as 'whatever-you-like'!
     
  7. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

    Oct 26, 2006
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    Thanks Joe I do recall you explaining that before.

     
  8. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    sorry to correct you : not a Lamborghini bible... but with humility another historical approach !
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Always a pleasure.
     
  10. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    Geno,
    Like you I'm very sensible to history of our cherish brand, taking a magnifying glass on each model produced is something very difficult, so the base from where to start from is the factory records.

    I agree with you there are mistakes, many, but they cannot be assumed without fact...

    I'm pleased with the 1994 pics you show us !

    But, do you have others pics/document of #4906 from july 1971 when it was delivered to SEA in Roma-Italia up to 1994 ?

    If not, this is a lack of evidence to demonstrate that the factory records have a mistake about it.

    Untill there is a pic/document showing your car with the actual color from the '70s, I still stick to the factory records.

    At this stage, without offensing you I don't know what happen to #4906 from 1971 up to 1994, how many owners, how many color change, interior change ???

    You may assume and accept that 1st owner may have change his mind after some years and had it converted (at the factory or somewhere else) to another color, or the 2nd, 3rd who knows ?
     
  11. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
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    Ben
    Olivier:
    that sounds great, just Miura or certain Lambo cars or Lambo history in general ?
    How much time do i need to wait until i can shop the new book ? Another year or two ?
    Ben
     
  12. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    My main topic is "Ferruccio Lamborghini", whole his life, so cars are part of it, but also tractors, calor, oleodinamica, wines, family, many persons he met, lived with, worked with...

    I'm working a lot on this project, all my spare time... so it should be ready next year, a pre-sale will be organised for this limited edition !
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    I really must agree entirely with Olivier here.

    Perhaps I can say the same thing he is saying, but more clearly, so let me try.

    As you have presented it, there is still a 23-year gap (1971 to 1994) in the car's history where its disposition is unaccounted for. That's enough time for a car to be restored multiple times.

    Sure, the factory records were sometimes wrong, but the fact remains that more often than not they were right, so we can't assume they were wrong.

    As the car sits in 1994, it is very clear that the car was not original at that point, and the images you've presented show that. That much is indisputable. It has the Maserati rear lights, all the chrome trim around the car has been modified to black (even the door-locks and the headlamp bezels!), side-markers have been added etc.

    In the 1980s, many cars were similarly modified, 4812 (now completely rectified) comes to mind, for example. The art of faithful restorations is a more recent thing. That said, the car was nicely restored by Bill & Jeff, and the details that remain to be rectified such as the rear panel are minor. As regards the interior, until you find out the way it left the factory, its open to interpretation, and I'd just leave it the way it is. If this were my car, I would simply put the proper SV rear lights back on.

    BTW, awesome history images, especially the ones with Rozzi jr!
     
  14. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2010
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    #14314 P300V8, Oct 30, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
    ....and I know of one V8 where the interior colour on the factory invoice was incorrect...!
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Me too, with a Miura, rare, but it did happen.
     
  16. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    thank you Joe to make it more understandable in your motherlanguage, it is clearly what I meant !
     
  17. P300V8

    P300V8 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2010
    1,645
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    ....and another V8 with the incorrect exterior colour on the invoice...

    It seems that the colour originally ordered was on the invoice and did not reflect subsequent changes made before consignment.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    In the context of "Errors & Omissions" we'll accept that one as an omission.
     
  19. RedCT

    RedCT Rookie

    Nov 25, 2011
    49
    Novi MI
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    Luis Beltran
    #14319 RedCT, Oct 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Does anybody know of the Countach project that was displayed at the Oslo Motor Show this year?
    (and would you let somebody sit on your Miura?)
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  20. Olivier NAMECHE

    Olivier NAMECHE F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2007
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    #14320 Olivier NAMECHE, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    reading this ad, I wonder to know how the young Valentino who started to work at factory at age of 18 years old (21st april 1968) could have influenced the look of any car with the "orange balboni stripes" ?

    also, without a driving license and in 1969 doing diverse jobs in the workshop as an apprentice, how Valentino could have been in charge to present the car to Twiggy ? ? ?

    Used 1969 Lamborghini Miura for sale in Victoria | Pistonheads

    DESCRIPTION
    Offered for sale is the rare ‘Twiggy’ Miura. Delivered new by Lamborghini UK Importers to Lesley ‘Twiggy’ Lawson in 1969. Twiggy ordered the car in the lime green with orange ‘Balboni’ stripes. Valentino Balboni (former chief test driver at Lamborghini) presented the car to Twiggy himself. Ubaldo Sgarzi representing Automobili Lamborghini at the time presented a letter authenticating that Twiggy ordered the car to be painted in the lime with orange. Since then the car has travelled the world and lived in many car collections. The car presents in marvellous ‘unrestored’ condition having travelled only 30,550 miles. We are very proud to be able to offer it for sale today. This Miura represents an absolute piece of art and automobile history.
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  21. 5000gt

    5000gt Karting

    Oct 8, 2015
    90
    Were side view mirrors a dealer or factory option on the Miura? My car was equipped with Sebring mirrors when I purchased it but since I am repainting the car,I am thinking of eliminating the mirrors. I just like the fluidity of the hood lines without interruptions. So, mirrors or no mirrors?
     
  22. silhouette

    silhouette Karting

    Dec 13, 2006
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    Sydney
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    Paul
    Yes I wondered the same. Unfortunately fanciful advertising.
     
  23. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
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    Great news. If you need data, pictures, films etc. regarding tractors and some other of the mentioned themes please let me know by PM.

    Ben

    _______
    ...et surtout n'oubliez pas de prendre beaucoup du plaisir.

    FL 1968 in RAI Italian State TV:
    La Miura sarà una macchina che rimane nella storia del automobile. Le altre magari se cancellano, la Miura non.
     
  24. forza_lamborghini

    Feb 5, 2005
    227
    Norway
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    Kaare Byberg
    #14324 forza_lamborghini, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That is actually the ex-Sinatra Miura S in that 2012 photo. The owner was standing no more than five meters away from the car when that model photo shoot was happening :)

    The Countach chassis belongs to a Series 1 LP400 S undergoing complete restoration.
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  25. RedCT

    RedCT Rookie

    Nov 25, 2011
    49
    Novi MI
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    Luis Beltran
    \

    Thank you for the comments, that is awesome!, I'll be sweating bullets if somebody sits on my ex Sintatra Miura S!
     

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