MARANELLO 575 MARKET POISED FOR NEXT INCREASE IN THE MARKET

Terry - not going to take you on here. You are a legend and a marvellous contributor to these forums.

I have had seven Ferraris with F1 single clutch, been on most levels of the
Pilota programme at Fiorano. Just don't rate it. Not sure diving lessons for me would help .

As I said on previous posts US market very different due to road system, driving culture and (lack of) history with manual vehicles.

 

Agree that 550 a classic, 575 obviously a "better" car. Not sure it matters even complete DOG Ferraris (and in the 70/80s that is most of them, excluding special series) are rising so enjoy free motoring.

 

Sorry - can't resist adding worth looking up the term FLAPP PADDLE gearbox and leading EUROPEAN journalists like Frankel, Harris, Clarkson. They are universally hated.

 

I would choose the 575 out of that bunch as well! I am sure it was a great trip...

 

Calling Clarkson a journalist is a joke. Harris had a 599 and seemed to like it until he found out how much it cost to maintain one. Frankel I have only seen in Forza. Journalists' opinions sway me not at all.

If you are driving an F1 Ferrari and the shifts are not smoother than a 3 pedal, except possibly for full throttle upshifts, you are doing something wrong.

 

Opinions over opinions, most of them imho very subjectiv. We will for sure not find the solution which of the Maranellos will be the "best" one, the personal taste, rating of extras etc. plays an to important role in this content.

There were reasons, each of us has decided for "his" Maranello and I enjoy the variaty of the cars. Imagine, every car would have been built in rosso corse or pozzi blue and every interior would be black.... Just boring (....I have nothing against black interiors.....&#9786. In any case, the newer is not strictly the better and more appreciated car if it comes to the market value. Having just enjoyed the article in the new Octane regarding the epic drive with the Baillon 250 SWB Spider along the 17th miles drive close to Carmel. There where newer Ferrari Spiders but none of them achieved the market value of this type.

Finally, the market and the collectors will decide how the Maranellos will develop, whatever our personal opinions will be.....

Let's enjoy each of them by each owner the way they should be enjoyed - drive them and be proud of one of Ferraris masterpieces!


Saluti,

Jürgen

 

"If you are driving an F1 Ferrari and the shifts are not smoother than a 3 pedal, except possibly for full throttle upshifts, you are doing something wrong."

+1

 

Were you driving in auto or paddles? and in normal or sport?

 

Wise words Jürgen !

Daniel

 

I know you don't need to, but when I drive F1, especially on full throttle, I lift my foot from the gas pedal like a manual for that split second while the car shifts & then mash it back down again

Produces a flawlessly smooth shift and supplies some of the fun I miss without the 3rd pedal

Again, I love a stick and they are much more challenging fun and involving, but you can never match with a stick what you can do with F1

So different strokes (pun intended) for different folks, but the Maranello truly shines in F1

 

Entire Top Gear think flappy paddle gear boxes are horrid. But not dual clutch. Some of us like blondes, some brunette, some (well not many) red heads, nobody is right.

Enjoy your cars.

 

The problem is that all of us here love whatever cars we happen to have. Some lucky owners will happen to have the most desirable by some standard (as defined by the press, other collectors, highest value, whatever..) but most of the time we are "stuck" with what we have. This theme repeats throughout life with mates, houses, careers, etc. However a lot of us make our cars more desirable by how we care for them, how we accessorize them with after-market stuff, and so on, to the extent that your average "less-than-highest-value" car in the hands of a caring owner becomes a cherished member of the family and in fact no less desirable to that owner. Therefore I think it is wise that we not dump on other people's cars because it kinda spoils the forum experience. Of course it's okay to prefer whatever one prefers but there must be a way to discuss that without gratuitous negative comparisons to people's cars. I would personally prefer to have the holy grail: 575M stick with HGTC, Sport Seats, carbon interior, and CCM brakes and I can state that without talking about anything else. Just my $0.02

 

Yes it's true, most of us are proponents of what we own. And we own what we own because that's what we prefer or can afford to prefer, but we'd all like to feel like what we have is Good.
These forums are Great for sharing viewpoints and opinions. Respect for one another's preferences and opinions is also a key component of that.

Very well said by Zedtt...

 

The fact that newer paddle shift transmissions on Ferraris do not need to be driven like a 'manual without a clutch pedal' shows the F1 tranny was early days technology in the goal to get seamless shifting without a clutch pedal. Tell me please, when flat out accelerating to redline through the gears do you actually lift off the throttle when shifting? This is when the F1 tranny actually works as it should. When Top Gear tested a 575 F1 Clarkson just hits the lever when up shifting without lifting off. There is no way one can achieve the advertised 150ms shift times with an off throttle input. Yes one can get good at smoothly shifting an F1 in other than full throttle shifts but that doesn't get around the fact that like Aston's paddle boxes, they just aren't very good at what the design goal was.

 

I'm not so sure "seamless" was the original goal. Just, faster than a human can do it. Of course, as tech has improved, then we are closer to actually seamless, but I thinjk they achieved their goal. Under full throttle, even the first F1 achieved it's goal. If you want to drive smoothly, then you lift a little, but no less than one would if rowing through gears.

 

575M min shift time is 220 ms, except for HGTC, which is 180 ms.

For full throttle upshifts in Sport, no lifting is required. The system automatically lifts for you, just like it raises revs on downshifts.

Part of the problem with discussions on F1 is most folks have no idea how it works.

 

100 % true !

 

Zedtt, good !

 

Terry,
attention at tell the true of things ... "Part of the problem with discussions on F1 is most folks have no idea how it works."
My father teach me to tell the true, but in the world of today is counterproductive ...
As per my experience, the F1 gearbox of my HGTC, which is 180 ms, is great, and i think is good also the "normal" with 220 ms.
I would like to write other but i not want to repeat me....
Terry, you understand well why ..

Kind regards at all ....

 

Throttle lift-off is not entirely about knowing how to drive F1, and I want to add something here without any disrespect to Taz or negating his comment, as what he states is completely true and he is also of the, if not, the most highly regarded figure on this forum.

On the surface that makes sense, but there's more to it than that. It's about being so familiar with F1, it's intent and its limits that additional versatility is recognized that can be afforded to the driver through occasional lift-off. This may be more involved than that in which most would find interest, but I've had sportscars since I could drive, attended the same driving school in UK when I was young as many top F1 drivers, and I think, while not claiming to be any expert, I can offer with merit the following despite the fact that this is likely better the subject of another thread that touches on the F1 vs. manual transmission debate and may be more involved than most drivers would like to consider.

Agreed w/Tmario that speed over smoothness was more-so the goal of the F1 transmission and throttle lift off was never the design intent in a system based on speed, but besides being inherent, it was deliberately never excluded either and remains harmless and can be a suggested option for smoother shifts and other factors of driving control and enjoyment.

For Schumacher at Monaco where speed/timing is everything, lift off makes no sense, because no human can match F1 shift times; however, on the street lift off is harmless and can often make sense. Depending on driving conditions, style selection and any given situation; i.e. what driving goals one is trying to achieve, I find I alter between using lift-off and pure F1 as a method of shifting.

Both F1 and manual shifting offer respective qualities. When F1 was introduced it took me way longer than most to warm up to it. When I went to trade in and upgrade from stick to F1, I found I could not dispense with my stick and held onto it to this day along with my older stick cars. This is because the two transmissions offer two differing yet positive driving experiences with respective advantages and disadvantages that can likely never displace one another as each offers its respective rewards; hence the source of much of the subject debate above over which version of Maranello is better or more valuable (and that will likely never cease).

Lift-off assists to bridge the gap between F1 and manual transmissions. It is not about knowing how to drive F1, it's about familiarization with F1 and its intent and limits and the additional versatility one can derive out of an F1 equipped car- because the debate over F1 vs. manual isn't just black and white as most would like to think. The informed individual recognizes that there is also grey and at times grey is often the color of choice.

I often use lift-off as a style of shifting depending on my driving goals at any given moment. As an additional form of control, for smoothness under certain shifting/driving conditions, and for sheer pleasure, this hybrid shift style allows a driving control and pleasure akin to the experience my manual transmission cars afford through the benefits of contemporary F1.

I vary often, between using lift-off and not, as it makes sense for the goals I wish to achieve at any given moment allowing me additional versatility of the transmission and the car. Only by using this hybrid style of driving over many months, from casual driving to full throttle and throughout a variety of driving conditions, will someone realize the nuances of this versatility. It also offers a component of the manual transmission experience that appeals to me emotionally, and sometimes that satisfies in a way you can't quantify. Suffice to say that, like anything, certain elements become apparent more quickly than others throughout the learning curve.

No one's asking anyone to drive this way, but it's a harmless suggestion that offers additional versatility that many may not realize was capable of their car or there to be had, and only its regular use will familiarize one with these added benefits that bridge the gap between F1 and manual cars. And given the familiarity, any given person would use it to varying degrees depending on their F car model and driving conditions and style, but it's justified to conclude that I call upon this hybrid style of shifting when it makes sense for me and my style of driving and I like they left this as an option and as an experience at my disposal and when I want the pure F1 experience, I also like it!!

(This point has merit in the 575 F1 vs. 550 debate and affects my affection for one vs. the other, but this is a discussion that may merit a new thread and anyone who wants to turn this into further discussion is welcome, as I'm not of the mindset to derail this thread any further)

 

Aston paddle boxes are automatic gearboxes like the old Porsche tiptronic - they simply can't afford the R&D yet. May change with Mercedes hook up.

Good chats above - some like blondes and some brunette. Few will look back with much affection to F1 box era. No offence intended.

 

Could not let it go, eh? Let us know when you want some F1 driving lessons.

First lesson, on early F1 systems the Auto button means you shouldn't auto use it.

 

Domenic was right. This is an interesting thread.

 

Darius- I see you are selling your 87 Testarossa. That is my favorite model TR because they still have the center locks and knock-offs, but have real rear view mirrors for both sides.