RB uncertain for 2016

Exclusive: Red Bull secure an engine for 2016 | thejudge13

 

Pretty cool solution. Now redbull vs Renault/Lotus will be more interesting as well.

 

Is this fair? They're taking the same engine to develop it in parallel in two different ways next year. Whichever comes out best then can be sold back to the other team?

 

Good point...and how many tokens does RB have vs Renault?

 

Isn't development in the off season a free for all? I may be wrong.

 

This wasn't clear:

Red Bull Racing are already confident they will start the 2016 season with a revised version of the current Renault 12 token upgraded ICE, with a power unit producing in excess of a 40 BHP advantage.​

A 40 BHP advantage relative to their own 2015 car or a 40 BHP advantage relative to the other 2016 cars on track? I realise the latter would be a crazy thought, but the article was poorly worded.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

That was posted on 5th November, but this was posted on 6th November:

Illien plays down Red Bull engine solution rumours > F1 News > Grandprix.com

Illien plays down Red Bull engine solution rumours

Mario Illien has played down speculation he will play a central role as Red Bull ends its engine supply crisis and races into 2016.......



The Autosport have made no mention of this "breaking news", which seems a bit strange as it's now the 7th November! - In fact they've gone with:

Daniel Ricciardo: Red Bull will take whatever F1 engine it can get - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Daniel Ricciardo says Red Bull will take any Formula 1 engine it can get as time runs out for the team to secure a power unit supply for 2016..........



Skysports F1 make no mention of it: F1 News, Drivers, Results - Formula 1 Live Online | Sky Sports

BBC's F1 site make no mention of it: Formula 1 - BBC Sport

Planet F1 says it's not true!: Illien refutes Red Bull rumours - PlanetF1 : PlanetF1

James Allen says it's not true!: Renault to confirm Lotus deal in Abu Dhabi as Mario Illien denies Red Bull rumours // F1 News // James Allen on F1 ? The official James Allen website on F1

Red Bull's own F1 site makes no mention of this supposed deal: Infiniti Red Bull Racing

ESPN F1 make no mention of this deal: F1 2015 | Live Formula 1 Grand Prix news - ESPN.co.uk

Motorsport F1 make no mention of it: F1 News, Drivers, Teams & Photos - LIVE Formula 1 Racing

And I could go on!

Don't you think that if this deal was really happening then at least some of the respected F1 sites might just make a mention of it?

Sorry but as far as I'm concerned, this "Exclusive breaking news" on a previously unheard of F1 site is just a rehash of a rumour that was on other sites the day before and since denied by Mario Illien!

(If it turns out to be true then I'll be the first to say fair play to thejudge13 | F1: Daily International News roundup, inside whispers and insight together with thoughts and opinion [and query why Mario Illien lied to the press!] )

 

40 BHP up on what they have now surely.

If so good luck to them sorting a deal out, make sense them now trying to get their hands on Merc PU and hence pick the bones out of it.

Watch this space, it will keep Ferrari and Merc honest.

 

+1

This story looks very fishy to me ...

 

At the moment there's just too many sites not reporting this story for it to be true - No one in F1 can keep a secret that well!

 

I rather like the idea of Renault providing "stock" engines to independent "tuners" who could then use their own tokens to develop the engine along the path that they think will produce the best result. That moves toward Bernie's desire for an independent PU supplier. It is also in keeping with early F1 history where the likes of Climax, Gordini, Repco, AMG and Ferrari took basic engines from Ford, Renault, GM, Mercedes and Alfa, and turned them into real racing engines.

So why not let companies like Ilmor, or some other racing engine guru, buy units form Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari or Honda and try to make a better mouse trap. Give the tuner the same number of tokens as any of the manufacturers and let some real development begin. The manufacturers and tuners can work out the details of IP and costs, etc. Let more people work on more development and things just might get better. Yes, having several shops working on the development of a particular engine might cause that engine to improve more quickly than an engine developed only by the manufacturer, but that would be their choice. If Merc wants to keep it all in-house and Renault were to supply several tuners, that would be their choice.

 

I cannot see what benefit that system would bring to the manufacturer.

Beside, designing an engine block is relatively simple, and you don't need to use someone else for that!

And that solution would certainly not make the "tuner" independent, since he would be a customer from a manufacturer.

 

Despite Williams counter argument above, which has some merit, I kind of like this idea. A decent tuning company (better yet, multiple tuners) bashing away on a 'basic' PU would certainly speed development.

As noted, tokens, IP etc would need careful thought, but it could be done. Then we'd have 'tuner battles' developing from the same basic PU. Could even get electronics & battery guys (rather than the ICE) guys developing that part of it. Competition always improves the breed.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Many kind thank you's for the post. I for one and am pleased to see, or it seems that we have a full grid next year + Haas as well. Hopefully this is true in the end.

 

Good news but a little strange/odd yet RB was in a pickle. I read the article and if the two had come to these agreements last year it would have saved everyone a lot of hassle.

 

It's now 7.25pm on 7th November and still none of the more trusted F1 sites are carrying this story!

I wouldn't start accepting the news as being true just yet!

 

+1

 

No...remember, the tokens were intended to be spent in the off-season. A technicality (vague rules) changed that for this year only. The disparity of this year seems to be pointing to similar relief next year, but I don't believe that has been formalized.

 

6.45pm (UK time) on 8th November and still no confirmation on any other site!

 

Denied - Illien refutes Red Bull rumours - PlanetF1 : PlanetF1

 

As noted in post #107 yesterday

 

Oh..sorry!

 

No worries - It's nice to know I'm not the only one not buying into this rumour as being fact!

 

So, we are back to square one: Red Bull doesn't have an engine.

I am enjoying this ...

 

Should you give any credit to "Autosport", they have one indeed:

Red Bull on brink of new Renault Formula 1 engine deal for 2016 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Rgds