Good people of FC, I am going to embark on the project of swapping the F1 box to a proper 3 pedal. I have only seen people post about 360's, but am looking for anyone thats done this in a 430. My entire F1 system is still in great shape hence the clutch is still in great condition with 70%+ life left - should be a good time to do this. PM me or post here what you have done to make this happen. Its winter time so its the perfect project!
There was previous member who posted in the 360 boards about it being simple parts... which makes perfect sense as the F1 people are stuck with a giant electro-mechanical box that robs us of the good joy of rowing gears. The trans is identical, so my thoughts are its these parts: clutch master cylinder throwout bearing shift linkage shifter & hardware for install steering wheel hub or surroundings change to remove paddles ECU reflash or replacement of the motronics ECU's 3 pedal set Replace E-diff with proper mechanical diff or just remove E-diff If anyone knows any shops in the midwest that have done this please let me know.
Manual 430's also have an e-diff so removing it wouldn't be a good idea It's also part of the gearbox so would be very difficult anyway John.
On the throw-out bearing, all you need to replace is the seals. Bearings are the same but one set of seals is for brake fluid and the other for F1 hydraulic fluid (synthetic ATF). Doubt anybody can reflash the Motronic ECUs to manual from F1. Probably just need new ones. The F1 pump stays for the E-Diff. All the 3 pedal F430s have an F1 pump and E-Diff, but likely different plumbing. Not sure what needs to be done with the 8 Mb chip in the instrument panel or if it can be reflashed for 3 pedal operation or you need a new instrument panel. Ask FAI. Tougher job than the relatively simple 360.
Have you thought this through? While it may be feasible, I would think it would decrease the value of the car as buyers in Ferrariland like original cars. And, even if you think you're "never going to sell," many who have said that end up selling later. Do you plan on keeping the original F1 components? At least that way you could return the car to its original state if you wanted to.
This is something I very much considered. F430's are high production cars for Ferrari and the current market is showing 2x value with 3 pedal cars on the high. If done correctly, I would assume the value would go up as its not that big of a collectors car. One day it will be, so for the full longevity, I agree. But for a short term play (5 years or less) I don't think there will be an issue in value. I could be wrong. Obviously you saying something means there is concern.
If you have done it properly and used OEM parts EXACTLY as the factory would.. you will find someone who will pay you more for the 3-pedal than the F1. Keep the parts.. but there is so much demand for the 430 3-pedal and the experience it provides, I don't think you'll loose a dime! If my 360 were an F1.. I would have converted it to a 3 pedal. The only issue that I see is the ECU, and even then I doubt its going to be a biggie. F1 pundits might talk about how much better the transmission is.. but the real world gives the 3-pedal a premium. As long as you can only find less than a handful 3-pedal cars and "a lot" of F1's.. it won't affect "future value" a bit in my eyes. If I want a car I can shift myself, the bottom line is I want a 3-pedal 430.. if no "originals" exist, then you HAVE to go to a "transitioned" car. And bet buyers will pay more for it, esp. if its red. OTOH on FChat you'd be led to believe there are "a ton" of them that are reasonably priced... but when you search for a car you'll find that's BS. Start with Ricambi. Go through the parts diagrams one by one and compare the parts between cars and what part numbers are needed. Then compare those to the 360. Order the parts used if you can from the parts dismantlers. I did it with the 599.. haven't looked yet with the 430. edit: just looked. Entire interior shift lever and box is identical to the 360. Get it used from the 360 as is the shift cables. The interior trim will be different. Pedal box is the same as well. Talk to used parts guys and find if they have a manual car to pull most parts from.
Not to derail the thread but what did you find about the 599? You can PM or email me if you would prefer. Thanks John
I recall talking to the FOD service manager about a manual 430 where the tranny went into the crapper almost right away. It was replaced by FNA and went into the crapper again. It was later determined that it came with a tranny meant for an F1 car and the FNA replacement was the same. By that time, it was taken back under the lemon law. If this is true, obviously a conversion would be a bad idea. Dave
Not sure about this adding value. If it didn't leave the factory with a stick, I think it would lower value. There is a premium for manual cars, but I don't believe that would extend to an F1 car that was coverted. Maybe buyers wouldn't catch it, but if I were selling, I would want to disclose this.
Thanks for the input. Would you or anyone else here have a credible source that has or would want to do a swap like this? While I am resourceful enough to scour for parts, finding someone who has done it before is golden in my book. Much appreciated if so.
I remember reading about an F430 conversion either here or on F-Life about 2 years ago. Have you done a search? I can't recall 100 pct but i think he was successful.
C- No, have just seen it done here on the 360, not the F430. Pros seem to think it is a very difficult job on the F430.
If Terry says No then No I am just losing my mind. Best of luck to the Op. Please keep us in the loop!
My exact thoughts. It was discussed at length in the 599 section as well. Personally, to me, it would be a modded car, not a 3 pedal F430. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Very interesting because there aren't different parts numbers for the F1 and the Manual that I can see for the transmission gears, shafts or housing. I'll wager if it was a conversion that they didn't change the seals to accommodate brake fluid. Or, if it was a regular Manual they didn't properly adjust the shift linkage.. killing a syncro or syncros with each transmission. Neither would surprise me... nor would driver error! The bottom line is if you want to drive a manual 430. How many can you choose from that are on the market? How much are they priced above regular F1 transmissions? F1 430's seem to start about $90-100k (per quick cars.com search today). For example today on Cars.com there are 35 430's that have "manual transmissions". I could find 3 (three) cars that have 3 pedals! The lowest price for a manual car is $189k. So for a manual 430 car right now.. its buy an F1 car or spend $180k+ for 3 pedals. As a guy who didn't want the F1 experience, I wouldn't have bought an F1 car. So If I had to pay an extra 10K for a manual car.. I would have. There isn't any other option if you want a manual 430. If you take a regular F1 430 and convert it will you be able to get more for it. Buy $100k, convert properly for $10k. If I try to sell it for $130-140k would there be a buyer? I'll bet there would be. And it would sell in a week.
Why not ? It would not make car inferior nor less valuable . I can only smh to Ferrari purists because there are many classics that have been changed from how they left the factory and that makes them no less desirable .
Transmission swap is a rather big modification and most buyers don't want to buy into someone else's project... you just don't know exactly what you're getting into. id rather pay more for a factory 3 pedal since that's essentially money in the bank.
Sure. $140k for a converted red/tan 3-pedal -or- $189k for a Blue/tan Want a factory red/tan manual? Sorry can't have one. The car that you've saved for 30 years to buy and have lusted since a teen. Not a blue ferrari, not a black ferrari... a RED ferrari. And you can't have it because there isn't one available "factory assembled". And the best part is at C+C they look at the scud and then the converted 3-pedal and they say.. "WOW a 3-pedal!" Sure you wouldn't. Many many people would. When people are spending 6 figures for a dream car, they tend to get very particular.
Curt has made the point that the tranny isn't different just the operation . Once done correctly it should have more issues then other manuals I'm in process of doing this conversion on a big truck It's manaul transmission that takes a clutch not torque converter . I'm curious at the cost to convert
The 430 is not a "classic" in the meaning of a Ferrari say from the '60s. When a car was purchased in 1960 and modified in 1963, collectors consider it to be part of the history of the car and it doesn't adversely affect value. This sort of a pass do not apply for modern era cars. Maybe this type of mod would have no adverse affect on value after 30+ years, but then again, there are a lot more of these cars than many of the classic Ferraris that now fetch crazy money. While you may scoff at Ferrari "purists," most Ferrari buyers lean toward the purist end of the scale. Not saying it's right or wrong, but Ferrari buyers have a strong preference for originality.
I think there are multiple schools of thoughts. You are 100% correct, in 1963 no one was thinking that their car would be a classic. however, there are classics that are non-fully original using all OEM parts that are also worth a pretty penny. But in the sake of this thread not turning into a valuation thread, I am hoping someone can point me in the direction of the right people to achieve this? Eddie
