This is another reason why non-racing Ferraris should have manual gearboxes.

I like them in some cars and in others, I think the paddles are actually better.

The one thing most people don't understand -- not all paddles are the same. Ferrari really has this down very well compared with just about everyone else.

That may seems strange but if you drive different cars, you can see the Ferrari advantage.

 

Todays FXX buyer is not yesterdays 288 buyer. The FXX is a new invented category for ferrari.

In period a 288 was the same price as a BBI, or todays F12, it was fast road car homoglation special distinguished by being smaller lighter harder less refined than anything else they then made or had made in a while.. The 288 the homoglastion special was an acidental sucess for ferrari, a car they otherwise would not have made.
The 288 used a lot of 308 architecture pumped up on steroids. It was an acidental sucess, somehting ferrari thought its well heeled customers wouldnt go for because of its very lack of refinement, and they didnt, the 288 was not bought by the well heeled older collector class, but a lot of race drivers bought them. It was a car that tilted away from the useability luxury spectrum that ferrari thought it had to have, and still does with the la ferrari.

It also was not cutting edge, the 959 from the same era was tech cutting edge, more refined, more bland and less liked as result.

Even after it went out of production many of the dealer collector class said it wouldnt be worth much because of its more than passing resemblance to a "common" 308. When new F40s were 600k used 288s were 150.

In any event there were few made and now that "collectors" want to have every special f series ferrari prices are through the roof due to small numbers produced.

After the F50 ferrari has gone for ever more useability and refinement in their special cars, imo they lost much as drivers cars.

If the advance of technology offers us anythign its the ability to make a raw 288/f40 type hard core performing car for less than a gazillion dollars, even if its slower than a fxx or whatever is the must collect techno fest.

BTW I think the 488 Gt3 looks fantastic, the sucessor for the F40, now lets see a series production road car like this.

Or take a 4c tub, put wishbones on it a great body and a derivation of the maser ttv6, voila you have the modern spiritual sucessor to the 288. Thats what I am talking about, not enginered overdone billionaire collector specials of irelevant use or performance.

I think we are going to see somehting like the above too, whether it has paddles or not is not really the point. To me its the benefit of sergio being in charge, less false exclusivity BS for bloated cars with bloated option lists, although there will be that too, but also some hard core machines for the drivers.

Sergio gave us the Hellcat a true mopar, roll on ferrari back to its roots.

 

I think its more about the attributes being diluted out of modern ferraris, maybe in this regard the paddle is unfairly maligned for a whole host of sins. Or paddle only implies a lot about the thinking at ferrari in terms of product, not all of it positive.

BTW I think the new F12 GTO or whatever its called looks great and from what we read drives like a ferrari used to, ie edgy and alive.

Now lest see what ferrari can do with a 4c, or what a 4c at 150k-200k would look like. Either way I dont think it would be for poseurs.

 

I drove the p90d tesla, while the speed was impressive the autodrive mode is what made the greatest impression. All I can say is enjoy driving while you can because we are very close to being replaced.

The silver lining is that for Ferrari to survive in a driverless world they will need to return to their roots and make track cars.

 

Reminds me of that movie elysium, the one guy had a full auto Bugatti spaceship.

ABS was in hindsight the beginning of the end.

Frankly when I see how little attention people now pay to driving, how cluelss they are about baisc vehicle dynamics, how dependat they are on systems to keep the car on the road, how dependant they are on warning sensors beeps etc instead of basic looking, how many more nannies are coming in the interest of convenience, auto drive cant come soon enough.

In fact have you tried to buy a new car lately, try finding one where the car does not take over and tell you what to do. Aparently consumers love it. I can even see the future ferrai with a track loaded into its memory, you sit there while it takes you for a thrill ride, audi already demoed such systems, the end is neigh .

 

they say that even the newer stick ferraris are going ballistic in the used market, must be something. Or maybe Ferrari will satisfy the hard on..

 

Hate to say it, but the last versions of the manual Ferrari's are crap to drive. The 430 stick is awful as well as the 599 ( worse then the 430). The technology in the cars has far far surpassed the driver.

I'm a three pedal guy, but a spade is a spade.

 

Have to disagree here, at least about 430s since I've owned one 10+ years. I think it is the most satisfying manual I have driven. Yes, it requires a little more skill with throttle management to make it smooth, but when done properly, it is superb. On a track at high revs, it is really awesome.

Dave

 

I hear the 599 bad too. Thats why its not just a matter of swapping transmsions, the drivetrain has to have harmony, Ie motor charateristics need to match the transmision type. You also need agreat shifting manual, thats why porche is putting the 6 not 7 speed in the 911R.

Ironicaly the shift to turbos with their lower redline and higher tq better suit a manual over avery high rev low tq motor. Still all the electronics of the drivetrain need a lot of development to work with a manual as they are so integrated with the paddles and their predictability. Then there is emisisons and fuel economy compliance to acheive.

Still plenty of comapnies do it, so far ferrari has not bothered, they sold all the paddle cars they wanted to, but then look at 360 550 430 manaul vs paddle prices.

It will be inetresting to see what happens.

 

So the latest is Porsche Cayman GT4 with a stick shift is so popular among the Porsche crowd that Porsche is bringing back the manual gearbox in its flagship GT3.

We can only hope the Ferrari brain-dead management will see the light.

 

911R which no one has seen yet, a de winged lighter gt3 with narrower tires for feel and feedback, manual, 700 units to be produced, sold out to the faithful.
No one has even see. The car yet or even heard price.

It's not just about being manual it's about drivers cars.

It's why Ducati sells multiples of rideable monsters for every paginale.

 

I for one am looking forward to a manual GT3...

It is one of the rare cars I'd consider buying new to spec.

 

Technology in the form of driver's aids, i.e automatics, front and rear radar, parking assist, self parallel parking, lane departure avoidance, side lane car detection, night time vision assist, etc. etc. All of this technology is the direct result of drivers becoming more and more distracted (mobile devices) and not actually DRIVING.

Millennialials and others are too busy with social media, etc. I'll bet that a lot of the younger crowd when looking for a car ... Are mostly interested if it comes with a wireless hotspot, google Earth, real time news, traffic reports, Facebook, Twitter etc. They probably don't care if the car has a clutch nor would they probably know what a clutch is.

In this day and age ... The Enthusiast DRIVER wanting manuals, no driver aids is rapidly being replaced by the mobile generation. It is sad.

 

I wish I had more data points to relate to the conversation but since this is my first real sportscar I can only add that to me this feels pretty well integrated. If it were a bit more raw I wouldn't complain. Actually it is a bit more raw until it is warmed up!
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Turns out acording to GM surveys 40% of millenials would like fast cool cars without all the crap. The rest just want a painless transport module and then only if they have to. Comited Gearheads were always a minority.

But yeah all those aids are dumbing down driving to 711 donut eating minivan driver levels.

Draconian traffic rules and a overbearing gov also means most kids who even like cars dont want to be so exposed to "authority" in the form of self righteous triger happy taser cops with an attitude. Who can blame them.

Its ironic how the insiurance industry is putting itself out of buisness, all those mandatory drivers aids, all those rules and free laser guns means demand for an auto drive car is near universal, and auto drive cars will drive down insurance payouts and therefore fees and profits. Autodrive will also put highway robbers, I mean traffic enforecent revenuers out of buisness by destroying their income stream.

Auto drive ferraris for poseurs, the more expesive and the more options and flash the better, then trackday cars for the rest of us.

 

My daughter is growing up in a household with 4 Ferraris and a Porsche GT3. She is going to want to drive those cars, all with stick shift. I am going to teach her and toss her the key.

 

All your passion for manual gearbox Ferraris (which I share) really loses credibility with generalizations like this. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd be cautious about labeling people you don't know. Every high-end brand has its component that buys the cars as jewelry, or investments. Your assertions are starting to demonstrate that you seem to prefer to grind an axe than row a gearbox. Just my $0.02

My now 13 year old daughter has been driving a manual gearbox car on track since she was 11; when she was 12 she entered an ITB race and took a podium. Probably headed to an MX-5 Cup car next. She's good enough that last week we sent her to bring the manual drive rental cars down to the paddock. Having said that, even she noticed that Porsche's new Cayman Clubsport race car is a PDK.

 

My grandson is one year old.

If things work out the way I'd like, someday I'll toss him the keys to the Ferrari to drive his date to his senior prom.

 

Elaborate? Sure...

Society has devolved into two classes, MORLOCKS, (Keepers) & ELOI, (Kept).

Morlocks are the governing body, while the Eloi exist at the pleasure of the Morlocks.

The Time Machine, HG Wells, 1895

 

I can vouch for this - Mitch, you going to need to get another garage soon...

 

haha...I like this.

I will trade you two morlocks for two of my unicorns!!

 

Is that from experience, or from the mouths of YouTubers? Because most videos I've seen of people driving manual F430s, and definitely manual 599s, were done by people who didn't seem to have a clue as to how to even make a simple upshift, while most users on here generally say that manual F430s and 599s are very sublime to drive.

 

Nick, my apologies if I missed this earlier in the thread, but what exactly are your credentials and experience driving a manual gearbox in a 430 and 599?

I've driven both, including on street and track. There is no doubt, the click-clack of the gates are seductive, though the matching of the car/engine and the shifter wasn't ideal, at least compared to my direct experiences in a 360 and 355 (or 997 GT3RS, or even an MX-5). On the street, they were fine actually, if you took your time, but the 599 in particular (given the massive V12) was always a big of a bear to manage on downshifts, and 2nd gear seemed to always be problematic.

As I'm sure you know given your comments, upshifts are the EASY part of life with a manual gearbox.

 

My view, right now is it's all about a speculator's market bubble

1) "no more naturally aspirated V8s!"
2) very few 6 speeds made....more rare....and coveted by a small but passionate market segment who are willing to pay more (theoretically)
3) comments even from Felisa about how Ferrari lost money developing the MT gearbox in the later cars, but the few people who bought them (especially the Cali) made good investments since they are unicorns.

I think the noise is mostly coming from people trying to promote the market and raise prices, not from a sudden or delayed realization that only real men drive manuals. The market will likely adjust once that potential market (see point 2 above) is exhausted....it's small. In particular, the F1 gearbox in the 355 was very cool for its time, but that car works perfectly with a manual box. 430 and 599, you can say the opposite.

 

From plenty of experience. When driving along, just up shifting through the gears. No problems, they shift just like anyother.

Once you really get into them however, the human short falls really come into play. These engines rev so fast, and the technology in the cars to so advanced, that you as a driver are slowing down the car. As a result, the shifts can be jerky and in some cases the electronics get confused.

Even just starting out from a dead stop can be a bit of a trick, only because of how fast these engines rev up and back down. It makes for a rather unenjoyable experience.