Who cares about the record books. People only interested in statistics have no grasp of motor racing, I think. But I know a real performance when I see it. Like somebody coming through the field from a low starting position, or a driver making places in the rain, or another one driving the guts of an inferior car to get in the points. Stirling Moss (you know him I hope), never was world champion, but regularly humilated drivers with superior cars with his one or two years old private car.
Ian, I don't think people here hate them because of their success, rather because of how unprofessional they have been. Just one bad season, and the way they trashed Renault in public...is something unbelievable. It really shows their actual character of the whole situation i think. Which is why, i think they dug their own grave. Since they trashed Renault in public, how many other suppliers have distanced themselves from the Bull? Of course, latest spec engine is a factor here, but the behaviour of the team too, is a factor. i for one, won't miss them.
Red Bull are expected to announce at the season-ending Abu Dhabi GP they will use 'unbranded' Renault engines in 2016 while sister team Toro Rosso are expected to be powered by a year-old spec of Ferrari units (Sky Sports News)
I fail to see how supplying "unbranded" engines to Red Bull can benefit Renault. It seems to me like a strange decision; there may be more to it that we don't know.
Yes, I do know Stirling Moss - like you I'm an old fart . But younger people know him less well, and a couple of generations further down the road very few people will know him. And that was my point. What you are describing is the experience of those who were around to see it happen - those things tend not to last. Do we know the 'how' of drivers like Nuvolari? That is something that has largely been lost as time passed, and what we are left with is largely the bare bones contained in the record books.
Ferrari have such little confidence in themselves that they won't even allow Toro Rosso to have 2016 engines? Pretty sure they spend five times what Toro Rosso does every year. Pathetic.
Do you know the expression "Beggars cannot be choosers" ? If Toro Rosso aren't happy, they can try something else. The one who's pathetic is their owner.
The fact that Ferrari don't want a team that spends a fraction of what they do having the same engine speaks volumes no matter how you spin it.
Ferrari and Red Bull discussed Alfa Romeo plan So it's legal to give your engine another name and develop it in parallel. Why doesn't everybody do it already?
It sounds like they wanted to do it but that it wasn't permissible and too many complications arose regarding the intellectual property of the engine development. All the best, Andrew.
Look at it this way to cheer yourself up: "Horner has just said that RB expect to announce that they will be eating some major F1 humble pie at Abu Dhabi!" BTW: He announced it 3 hours earlier live on the BBC!
So, could it be an Infinity deal whereby RBR and Infinity/Renault do what Alfa Romeo/ Ferrari did not do? Parallel engine development programs based on the same basic ICE
Let's put it that way; I will be disappointed if Red Bull and Toro Rosso are on the grid next year. And if Renault deals with them, I would not have any respect for them either.
upgraded renault engine was 20hp less than the old one. that's impressive. no wonder red bull is upset at Renault's rate of development..
Not to mention the lackluster reliability. I do not expect an announcement from RB until after the Abu Dhabi GP but I think the Renault deal has been cemented.
Yes, but the "other engine options" are dwindling...Araï of Honda said yesterday: "I think it is now too late for Honda to provide Red Bull with an engine in 2016, we could not be ready in time now" Too late for Red Bull 2016 F1 engine deal now says Honda - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
