Spy shot of the '2016' FF

What I've "heard" is that Ferrari will present the FF "M" in Geneva with V12 and, in addition (!!), with a V8 tt engine (California engine ??). Ferrari follows the Bentley Continental model strategy. Also with respect to the rear-end design...

 

Heard the same. Dealers have just been to Ferrari for the info.

 

Just read the entire thread and was particularly interested by the spat between Milanno and BrianL.

First, while I've zero need for an FF, I think it's a brilliantly clever product solution for a very particular market.

Second, if people are going to look at sales and values for V12s they need to look long term. The 550 Maranello hit 25K trade here in the UK back in 2002. Then it was as desirable as a bacon sandwich at a barmitzvah. Now, it's near 100K and moving north. The 550 isn't a unique example.

Third, per the ugly debate, sticking with the 550, comments at the time of its launch about its design compared it to a Toyota Supra. People slammed LdM for adding silly scoops and vents. Really. Now, the 550 is easily beautiful.

Calling the FF ugly now ignores what consistently happens with Ferrari V12s over time. They mature like fine wine. Unlike 99% of other marques, Ferrari's designs get better with age. View the long term, not now. That's the magic of great design, not forum rendering, fun as it is.

 

This is all well known already. The car is going to have four taillights, not two. First viewings for clients in December.

Marcel Massini

 

Anything else you know Marcel? Apart from the usual power increase and bumper restyle, I have also been told there will be a minor interior refresh, maybe in the dashboard area.

 

Excellent post Camlet. I agree with your thoughts. Though just speaking for myself I never thought the 550 was ugly. I wonder if you have any thoughts as regards their moving on from PF.

 

So now we know.......4 rear lights much like the 612....revised front end......more sculptured side panels with more pronounced haunches....roof line dropped 20mm at rear to give more of an even line.....completely new dashboard with revised seat style...No V8...and power up to 685bhp. 20k increase in basic price. 1st ones to customers in Sept 2016.
Projection is that as the visual difference will be more cosmetic than radical the current ff will not suffer as the power increase will be insufficient to encourage change. Prices for new with reasonable spec will be 280k typically making a 2012 model at 160k a very attractive deal thereby hardening the market for used examples.
Considering most FFs were bought for partly practical reasons the need to upgrade for the sake of it is less than would be the case for models bought purely with the heart. Imo of course.

 

No V8 tt?? I thought this is "well known"?

 

Not according to the dealers preview two weeks ago

 

Is that info global or just UK? The speculation was that the v8TT was for China primarily given the tax situation on anything over 4l over there?

Interested to see the 'new' shape. Doesn't sound like much of a change though. >700bhp attainable on a current car for somewhere around 7k investment in exhaust and Ecu...

 

!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Another rendering
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I like the current FF But the sex appeal on the replacement model needs to be turned up if they want to sell more.
The V-8 option sounds like a great idea if it comes with a 40k plus savings over the 12.
Seeing the V-8 in the same engine bay is going to be crazy since there's a huge difference in size between the two

 

US and European as I understand it. No reason given why the v8 was not mentioned at the dealer launch. Maybe for later in as you say China but as their economy is in free fall maybe the plug was pulled. Apart from that it couldn't possibly be much cheaper as the 488 is 200k and a fully specced Cali is not far behind. The price moving up in the UK to about 245k plus everything an extra for the first 2 years does give a bit of room in the 215 to 220k region but I for one believe the car is all about the mighty engine the the turbine smoothness the 12 gives. A farty v8 in such a big car wouldn't cut it with me even if it did do 22 mpg

 

Thanks. Time will tell, I'm a willing customer so happy to give Ferrari the benefit of doubt, they know their business. But while data-driven insight is becoming hugely important, and provides a wealth of information to inform creativity, it can't match the abstract creative excellence of a brilliant human mind. That's what PF provided. Hopefully Ferrari is investing heavily in its own brilliant original creative talent.

In the 1960s Ford began applying the concept of the focus group to their design process. Mr PF was asked if PF would follow the trend. He said no. His reason? Because he said a focus group can only tell you want people know at that moment. And he saw the role of PF to take people beyond what they know, to design concepts not based on today but for tomorrow. The man was a genius.

Let's see what happens.

 

Brilliant thoughts from Mr PF

 

Excellent thoughts.

This is what I have heard over and over from the top automakers when they are asked about design.

For me, the cars look a little bit naked without the PF badge. It was one more thing that set Ferrari apart from others- at lest for me.

 

+1

 

It sounds like the new FF will look better but I do not like losing 20mm of head room in the rear seats.

 

The rumours about no V8 version and a price increase stand in stark contrast to Ferrari´s own thoughts on the FF not living up to its sales potential (check the FF figures in the IPO prospectus if you want the full oversight).

IMO the FF needs to be made more accessible to increase its area of competitiveness and attractiveness. Now its basically a 4-seater 4WD F12 - otherwise known as a car at the upper end of the supercar performance tier. What about the more California T oriented market group - whom is also most likely to have an overlapping preference towards a "practical" Ferrari?

I´ve mentioned it before, I´ve seen and most importantly heard a V8 TT FF prototype in Maranello. Making the car more elusive won´t increase its sales, so unless they do some serious cost cutting and make the car their most profitable per unit model, I stick to what I´ve been told and seen with regards to a V8 etc.

 

V8 T idea is terrible idea! who wants to see the same FF they are driving pull up next to them, 20-30K cheaper, and have a V8 - insult to the V12 FF owners, especially for people like me who will trade current one for the updated FFm. It's like taxi's that are MB S350 with an AMG kit - unless you know what to look for, you would think it was an S63!

 

A few manufactures offer multiple engine choices in the same car
Bentley has both V-8 and V-12 as well a Mercedes BMW and Audi

Plus I can't imagine anyone going for the V-8 if it's only 20-30k cheaper
Would have to be 50k less.Plus they could do some styling differences
between the two FF's to better differentiate them form each other

 

Bentley V8 is the same engine from Audi S8 - and i would never compare an F-car to any of these albeit i own quite a number of cars including Bentley's VW and just signed up for a new MB yesterday. I don't rate or consdier F-cars int he class of anyting other than their own

 

The point if the v8 isn't to sell cheaper versions in uk or us, but to enable more sales in China where there are punitive taxes on engines over 4l... That's my take at least...

 

I was making mention that other manufacturers have multiple choices Not that those brands are equal to Ferrari.
Plus Ferrari will be introducing a V6 in 2019 so whats the big deal if they offer a V-8 in an FF. IMO that does Not
deteriorate the brand whats so ever