F1 car ‘with a cockpit’ - Montoya

F1 car ‘with a cockpit’

Montoya says Le Mans attempt ?would be cool?

Extract from the article:


Montoya added that the high performance of the Porsche 919 has impressed him, and likened it to an F1 car with an enclosed cockpit.

“If you think today what’s the most advanced-technology car, it’s this,” he said. “I think it’s ahead of Formula 1 in technology and everything.

“When you look at the car without the bodywork and everything, people talk about Formula 1 and the cockpits – if you want a cockpit on a Formula 1, you have it here. You really do. It’s pretty unbelievable.”

 

Eh - yes and no.

The LMP1 is is shorter, wider, and taller than F1. Also weights about 600lbs more and has AWD, traction control, ABS, adjustable suspension, and active aero.

Seems like a much different car to me personally than just F1 with a cockpit.

 

True, but there can be no argument that LMP1 is technologically far ahead of F1.

 

+1000

Plus, there is more freedom of choice and every engineering team gives a different solution.

It's absolutely great !!

 

A LMP1 is what a 2015 F1 car should be ! No wonder both Webber and Montoya were thrilled to discover that!

It is faster, more reliable, safer, more aerodynamic, stronger and more "relevant" than a F1

A close-cockpit, enclosed wheels racer providing performance and safety, designed in an open-minded set of regulations.

The WEC championship has allowed different technologies to advance together, and not imposed arbitrary parametes to favour some and the expense of others.

 

In a way it pains me to say it, but I agree. LMP1 is where the real cutting edge development is these days. I would love to see a Ferrari LMP project, but don't believe it will happen any time soon. The costs to run both F1 and LeMans would be crushing, and would mean neither program would get the resourcing and support needed to win.

 

Agree, WEc cars are much better than current f1s

 

I´d say sports cars are more complex, but the amount of work and cash needed to build a Formula 1 car (complex aero, miniaturization of engines, etc...) is comparable to what they´re doing in sports cars.

Let´s not forget also that many things they´re using in sports cars are banned in F1 because the "purists" wanted more driver involvement. Meh...

 

...and yet either of them, and any driver in the world, will pick F1 over an LMP1 car - always.

None of that makes for better racing or helps distinguish good drivers from great. Too many computers involved.

...and less driver skill.

...and yet it isn't even close to as popular as F1 save one race. Also, make no mistake, the teams that are spending the most money are the ones doing the most winning in WEC.

"Our cars are safer and have better systems which allows them to go faster" is hardly marketable IMHO.

 

If tomorrow, LMP1 cars were to do a series of 2 hours sprint races instead of 24 hours, they could be lighter and pose a serious challenge to the obsolete configuration of the present F1 (open cockpit, open wheels, etc ...).

At the moment, LMP 1 cars are only seen as endurance racers, but they could be adapted to sprint races too, and present a serious challenge to F1. One remembers how Group 7 and CanAM cars were faster and more spectacular than F1 in their days.

Under the present regulations (body and aerodynamics), F1s are full of technical contradictions that inevitably will question their existence in future.

F1 pretends to be the "pinnacle of motorsport", but in fact it picks and chooses the technology it allows, trying to mix progress and tradition, but restricting choice and innovation, and leading engineering in a blind alley.

 

F1 is already yesterday's news.

 

1969 all over again..

John

 

When you get up close to the Porsche 919 LMP car. the one thing that to me stood out is how small it is. For Weber to get in the thing must be a challenge. it is tiny. and the same for the engine = its so compact.

I do agree that LMP 1 is where the technology is, and the racing is great as well. if WESC and Tudor could come to 100% parody, it would be a spectacular series.

 

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, few statements could be further from the truth.

Advancing technologies? I guess if you build a better mousetrap you're advancing technology. Your problem then becomes the ACO (the only ones that matter, really, who cares much about any of it outside of Le Mans?)

The pooh-bahs in France will increase your weight, reduce your gas tank size & even make you breathe thru the proverbial hummingbirds sphincter.

A level playing field? I think not.

'Arbitrary parameters'? Seems to me WDC parameters change race by race - You go too quick, welcome to some lead weights. Or less juice, or whatever BS restriction they come up with to slow your down.

You may be screwed at the back of an F1 grid, but at least you know what you're up against for a few years. The rules are largely cast in stone for quite a few years yet.

That's not the case at Le Mans.

Cheers,
Ian

 

One disappointing thing about lmp1s is the way they implement traction control. When they spin for any reason, they need to do a three/four bites wide manouvre to get back in the direction of traffic rather than just stomping on the gas and do a half donut, because the TC wouldn't allow it.
TC should be banned in any motorsport as they are doing in Motogp next year.

 

+1

 

I'll tell you one thing, technology or not, lately WEC has been a lot more exciting than F1.

And IIRC lotterer also said that the Audi felt faster and had more grip in the corners than F1 (even though he only drove 1 caterham for about 12 minutes). Depending on the circuit, LMP1 could beat an F1 car.

 

It is?? wow......I can't wait to see what that does to mix up the field.

 

Yes and no.

First, the ACO juggles with different car definitions, different fuels, different engine types, different energy recovery systems, etc... F1 don't want any of that! F1 imposes most of the technical parameters.

The ACO has a very liberal rule book (compared to F1) and instead of imposing strict paremeters, the ACO plays with equivalency, to obtain a level playing field, by altering weight, tank size, etc... I am not saying it's perfect, but it works.

Also, don't forget that the ACO deals with several different categories: LMP1 hybrid, LMP1, LMP2 and GTE. WEC is one of the most open championships. But GPs are different, of course.

I would even venture that sport cars racing shouldn't stick to endurance, but hold sprint 1 or 2 hours races, like the CanAm used to do. We don't see enough sportcars short races on TV to really evaluate how fast the cars can be, what show they can provide.

Having said that, if the FIA was adopting similar LMP1 rules for F1, GPs would be run under a different format, with shorter races (90 minutes instead of 6, 12 or 24 hours), no drivers change, no refuelling, etc... The cars would therefore be slightly lighter, but keep all the benefit of LMP chassis and structure in terms of aerodynamics, safety, etc... have a modern look.

I see one day "the pinnacle of motor racing" being a format like the much lamented CanAm was, run with modern LMP-like sportcars.

 

Don't expect big changes; the best riders will still be at the front.

 

Just goes to show how long Juan has been out of F1! I do, however, agree the technology in upper echelon sports cars, and the diversity, are much more interesting that the uniformity of F1 cars.

 

+1

 

I like this analogy.

 

F1 cars have been largely "obsolete" by your definition for 40 years, and yet they still represent the most popular motorsport in the world. I don't believe that motorsport should be ranked by relevance to future road cars.

Serious challenge in terms of what though? All out speed? F1 is not interested in all out speed, or they would make one ultra-sticky tire that lasts the entire race, 2000HP engines, full traction control, self-altering suspensions, ABS, and unlimited aero. There are a variety of reason the don't do this - including safety.

Progress as you define it - systems to keep people safe on the road. That isn't a racing pursuit and it isn't the function of racing. Racing is to prove you are faster than the other guy and his team and that is all. Anything above or beyond that is subjective.

 

Exactly...and there are plenty of ways to cheat that system. Anytime you start adding weight, restrictors, different exhausts etc...you have people sandbagging, etc. This is not only true of the WEC of course.