Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

All I can say is that the F driver was a pro race driver, he was well up for it, from what I recall he came the closest to catching the 918...

Different cars, different day, place, etc, yes might well be different times, but on this day, these cars, that had recently been checked over btw, these are the times. I will put up the other data later, hope this will help......

 

Having seen Apolo's data from the day, makes me wonder what have to be done to see a fair comparison in England.
He was there and they manipulated the outcome for the audience. Imagine what happens, when there are no witnesses?

So many asterisks so far regarding P1 tests in GB:

1. First TG test in Spain dissapiared
2. Second TG test was refused by Mc and F
3. Autocar even don't deserve any comments
4. Evo- Mac appeared months later with different car, tires etc
5. SCD at Silverstone - all cars were driven by Mac development driver
6. Chris Harris - Pirelli sponsored video with full team of factory support and telemetry for all, except Porsche. At least I didn't see any P technishan there...

 

As I continue to read this thread and most of you keep talking about winners and losers, I begin to think you don't have a clue of the time that separates the first and the last, so let's see:

(Whoopsy posted this times):

Supercardriver:
P1: 58.24
918: 58.47
LaF: 58.58

So, between the P1 and the LaF the time difference is 340ms... Yes 340 milliseconds. Does anyone think this is enough resolution to declare a winner and a loser, especially when the driver is not used to two of the three cars? 340 ms is less than a tiny error.

If we consider that the driver of this test was a former P1 test driver, and the P1 was using Trofeos, it's actually a big loss for the P1, given the fact that if it were on Corsas, and based of what we know about Trofeos vs Corsas so far, it would have been a lot slower than the LaF.

Hypercar5:
918: 1.18.44
LaF: 1.18.46
P1: 1.18.82

Now, the time difference is 20 milliseconds... 20 milliseconds! 20 milliseconds is the RTT of an ICMP packet on a 300km distance... This is a draw, no matter how you look at it. At this resolution, we're not even talking about driver error, but equipment error.

Cars:
P1: 1.53.57
918: 1.53.98
LaF: 1.54.25

Once again, less than a second... The outcome could be different every time.

So, in order to declare a winner and a loser, if the driver is not used to the car, the time difference has to be at least greater than a second (like it was on the Hyper 5 test, when the Bugatti and Huayra undoubtedly lost).

Regards.

 

BTW, did I missed something regarding the P1 time on Trofeos in Harris's test? Didn't found any proof of that in the latest video? On the other hand 2.2 seconds delta is posted on fastestlaps.... What I miss?

 

btw, have a look at the way he attacks the bends in the P1 and the LAFA, he does not seem to do this in the 918? as you are aware I know my way round a 918 ,ie, don't be fobbed of that you can not attack an apex due to the 4 wheel drive, you can even harder........

 

I think that he drove in a quite bad way laF compared to the other two, he said this at the end of the lap, he could achieve something around 0.4 0.5 second, in my opinion a test perfect is to be done by an independent race driver like kristensen or Sebastian Loeb

 

The 918 is the easiest of the 3 cars to extract 9/10 of the performance, the electronics helps a lot.

But it is easier to extract 10/10 out of the other 2 than the 918 because of the electronics also. One has to fully TRUST the electronics in order to get 10/10 out of the 918 because of the completely separate front axle drive system for the awd, not many in the world trust it. The front e-motor disconnects at times when it 'thinks' you are in 'control', in order to make the car behave like a mid engined rwd car, which most drivers are familiar with. But most drivers 'expect' it to behave like a awd car at the limit and that will get them into trouble. Counterintuitive for sure. It's one of the trickiest thing to learn in order to drive the 918 at the limit.

One thing I have learn driving around a track with Porsche's top instructors for the 918.

I spun a few times in one on the track, driving like i would in a 'normal' Porsche, i.e. rear engine 911. Staying on the gas to power out of a spin is a mistake, lift a little and let the front end engage and get traction is the key. something that has to be learnt, not taught.

 

I know Chris Harris has a loyal following, good on him. Me, i was never a fan boy, but after his declaration that the P1 was 'a whole new thing boys and girls...on another planet...etc, etc, etc', he's downright annoying. now all I hear from him is utter noise...blah blah blah blah...I love P1...blah blah blah...918 will never sell out...oh wait it did...blah blah blah...P1 the bestest fastest ever...blah blah blah.

This whole trying to 'claw' back lost ground from the P1 supporters (including Mr Harris), this careful manicuring of the 3 hypercar 'shootout' is pathetic. The videos all have a slant...a bias...that those who don't have more background information easily take on face value...ie, look at all the blokes that comment on Jalopnik. P1 on 'control' tires? still edges 918? Such a joke.

 

Very interesting, I was not aware that front Motor disconnects like you set out, you have the article on the lap record that I hold in the UK for a production car, the 918 had no right to out run and handle the Caterham R500 on Slicks, with Kart Champ behind the wheel..

But it did, I can see how now, it drove like a rear wheel drive rally car at some points round the track.......

Thank you for this info

 

So now what's the problem? Pirelli supplying fresh Corsas to make it fair isn't good enough for you?

It beat the 918 with lesser tires, fair and square. Put Corsas on the 918 and it will do even worse. Put Cup on the LF/P1, and they will probably do even better.

 

Unfortunately, CH lost credibility concerning the 918 ages ago (if you're talking about his test).

After his quasi mea culpa, he now appears to keep it in the running to appear more fair, but still have it lose to the P1 as his original position, before even knowing anything about the cars from actual experience.

The British Press, continues to embarrass themselves (or at least show their collective hands) to so many with their In England chicanery.

Do fair minded observers even take them seriously anymore, after all their various, wholly transparent shenanigans?

 

He didn't have it lose -- it lost. Plain and simple. You saw the lap on Corsas. Deal with your hurt feelings over an inanimate object LOL.

 

Funny.

I was speaking about Chris Harris and the British press in general.

The history is clear and undeniable.

Stevie Wonder could see that.

No hurt feelings at all. It's actually quite humorous.

It is what it is.

Congrats!

 

(Apolo1 data posted by unotaz from another forum)
Hypercar results for all 1/2mile tests

1/2 Mile (s) Speed @ 1/2 Mile (Mph)

Porsche 918
16.17 170.91 WIN
16.40 171.54 WIN
Best* 15.97 171.32 WIN
16.69 170.63 WIN
16.09 171.61 WIN

La Ferrari
16.85 171.18
16.76 170.54
17.73 168.59
Best 16.71 171.77

McLaren P1
16.68 162.53
17.38 158.48
Best 16.20 174.83
17.29 161.44
17.98 146.44
17.40 149.92

Overall Winner 918 (5/5 runs)
--------------------------------------------------------------
918 is the faster car around %90 of track in the WORLD!
P1 is the faster car in British tests only and with that famous pre production P1, going outside UK and with customer car P1 was/is a looser even with trofeo R tires, LOL
End of the story
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These graphs can be viewed however you want to bias things, not to mention it's obvious an AWD car is going to launch better and with slightly better tires. Practically all the advantage the 918 has is from the launch. Which car is quicker will depend on what speed interval you look at and what any given strip of road looks like. From 60-150 in a straight, a P1 is quicker. From 60+ in some sort of bend, a 918 may be quicker. In another type of bend, the P1 might be quicker again. This is why cars will be quicker on some tracks and slower in others. It's why they will be quicker in one drag race and slower in another roll race.

0 - 1/8
918: 6.84s WIN
P1: 7.12s

1/8 to 1/4:

918: 3.48s WIN
P1: 3.52s

1/4 to 1/2:
918: 5.65s
P1: 5.56s WIN

1/8 to 1/2:
918: 9.13s
P1: 9.08s WIN

From 30-60mph
918: 1.49s WIN
LF: 1.98s
P1: 1.85s

From 60-100mph
918: 2.67s WIN
LF: 2.8s
P1: 2.71s

From 60-150mph
918: 8.4s
LF: 8.44s
P1: 7.99s WIN

From 150-186mph
918: 11.70s
LF: 9.87s
P1: 8.9s WIN

 

The funny things is even in the first three head to head 918 VS P1 tests by British Magazines Topgear, AutoCar & EVO , and even with all McLaren helps 918 was the clear winner, at the same day , same track... but it seems today McLaren is back but with a new game without all stupid mistakes of the past (one example in that Evo test 918 won in a test with subject of same day, same driver, same track and the 918 was even with open top!! , but Mclaren made a stupid mistake with another run weeks after the real test this time with trofeo R tires and without any 918!!)
In AutoCar test 918 defeated P1 with more than a second at Mira with a set of tires only!

Honestly I would not trust to Harris test because it is a very questionable test , from their Track choice to the driver (Harris is a P1 fan boy) it is easy to post a faster time in your favorite car....
Anyhow all I can say is, to me these British tests is not legit, as I said before in all none British tests 918 defeated P1 (even with Trofeo R) especially with customer cars!

 

Better tires? are you joking? in all data from "Apolo1" P1 used trofeo R tires,
918 is faster car even in 1/2 mile!! and P1 can not destroys 918 on a 1 mile straight with only 0.08s, LOL
By the way all data from Apolo1 is from customer cars unlike from the data you have posted from a preproduction P1 and an army of Mclaren guys in a selected track with a long straight....

 

Sadly, the British Press has no credibility concerning all things P1. That is clear.

And it's obvious they don't care (nor the more strident P1 fans). So good for them!

 

This thread is so much worse than the F1 section, it's shocking.

 

So which is more fair:

AWD w/ Cup 2 vs RWD w/ Corsas
AWD w/ Cup 2 vs RWD w/ Trofeos

You guys are ridiculous. You act like their is some scientifically perfect way to measure a car, not to mention you ignore that there is absolutely nothing about the cars that says they should even be compared in the first place aside from being expensive.

I'd say there is more likely a scientific way to prove your ideas are absurd and ridiculous than there is to compare a 918 to a P1.

 

Probably because at least F1 has rules haha. In this thread you just get people trying to compare two cars that share nothing in common aside from 4 wheels and a steering wheel.

 

It's a pointless debate about 3 very, very fast cars that only proper racing drivers can get the maximum out of...and the debate is which car is a tiny bit faster than the other.

And when it's almost settled, they whinge about tires. I'm sure that once there's a test with all cars on equal tires, there will be someone crying that one car suits those particular tires a bit better. And so on and on this debate will forever go.

IMO, the average driver will be fastest in the 918 round a track. 4wd will help them with confidence. LaF seems quite lairy so in the hands of a non professional, it'll probably be the slowest. P1 with the open diff will inspire confidence as well, hence why I think it'll be 2nd fastest in the hands of non pro's.

All 3 cars are epic in their own way. For me it's LaF all the way. Makes the best noise, I love the looks....and it has the best noise.

 

Are these the times from the SCD driver test, or have you done mix and match from the bent UK tests, ?

 

Instead of Ferrari fans blaming the 'loss' on Chris Harris, the British press, Obama and anything else you can think of, maybe you guys should focus on Ferrari lying about things like the weight of the car?

 

Fully agree with this, if a Mac is in a UK test, forget it....

You will recall the Turbo S v 12C test at the Vmax track from our mate, the 12C just could not get away, time after time when it tried to launch, the Turbo S just ran and ran and ran. Guess what car was shown to be quickest in the Vid....Lol