minor damage?

I appreciate that the slightest question mark on carfax is enough to send potential buyers heading for cover; and that the words 'accident damage' minor or otherwise have been known to render an otherwise fine car unsellable.

What's the views on this... an '87 cab with 'minor damage' from a dealer in miami that seems to get a few mondial cabs through the door.

Used 1987 Ferrari Mondial for sale in MIAMI, FL | Kessler Auto Group, Inc

In this case, they've addressed the earlier accident report by getting a 'true frame' report which highlights historical accident damage as front bumper cover replacement... and goes on to demonstrate that appropriate chassis measurements are within accepted tolerances.

Presumably, you buy a car cheap 'it's unsellable sir' because of the accident damage, get 'proof' everything is 'good as new sir' and stick it on at a healthy mark up.

Be interested in the general perspective on such things. Part of me thinks... how many cars this age have had unreported accidents, at least this one has a structural report saying its fine (whether that's credible or not i wouldn't know). It's probably no better or worse than any other car of its age.

And part of me thinks it's tainted forever in the minds of the future buyer and should have a sizeable chunk knocked off the price.

 

They are asking above "top dollar" for this car. In that case it should be close to perfect, in concours condition and include all tools, jack kit, manuals, spare keys, etc. (These accessories these days can cost $4000+) Tires should be fresh and not 15 years old and it should have a stack of service invoices including the most recent belt, major, annual fluid changes, etc.

Unfortunately, a damage report on Carfax removes the "perfect" part of this equation, even if it is minor, IMHO.

If you are interested, I would have a PPI done by Tim Stanford in Ft. Lauderdale, he is close, and a good and honest tech.

Then you can negotiate from a position of real knowledge without the dealer ad hype.

If they balk at any of this or something is missing, then just figure that they are hoping someone will buy it on impulse for their price.

It looks like a nice car, but as we all know, even a nice car bought without a lot of foreknowledge can cost thousands to get right and reliable.
Alden

 

Thanks for the reply Alden. I'd certainly be quizzing them on a host of things if I was getting seriously interested. I am after a 3.2 cab, which is why I looked at the ad in the first place... But this was more a general interest point re people's views on 'minor damage' effecting price/desirability.

Sounds like you'd be in the camp of 'it wouldn't necessarily put you off, but you'd expect it reflected in the price' camp.

 

With the prices these days and in the future, sadly it will always be an issue for the car and any owner and buyer in the future. Some buyers don't care, but enough do that the future owner of this car car needs to keep it in mind. For top of the market price right now it needs to be perfect IMO.

 

Kessler is a long time dealer in Miami. He used to be in the NY metro area I believe.

No experience with him, but he certainly is knowledgeable about the market, so if he really wants to move the car (and end of year is a good time to do that), then he will know you are serious with a Tim Stafford inspection request.

Regards,
Jerry

 

That sure sits high in the rear. What is Finished Red? Why not just Red?

 

So is this a single owner car ?
Most Carfax reports list owner #1,#2,#3 and show the time frame and mileage of each owner. This Carfax does not.
Do they have pictures or paper from the shop that repaired the car ?
Also I have never seen the term "very minor damage" on a Carfax before.
I would have someone else run a Carfax on the vin and compare the two reports.
If they are not the same I would suspect something fishy.

New owner reported in 2002, per Carfax.

 

Been helping a friend trying to sell a late model corvette. His Car fax report show the words very minor damage in 2002 of the cars past so it does happen.

 

Good to know.
I would go with Alden above and the guy he mentioned.
A good PPI by someone who knows the 348 would make me more comfortable.
When you go to sell it this issue could rise again and affect value.

 

Kessler is asking top dollar because, like most dealers nowadays, they offer long-term financing. In other words, it's "affordable". People who buy cars etc. based on what the monthly is probably aren't too concerned about anything.

 

I'd say if the car is repaired properly and it checks out with a ppi, what's the problem? When you look at vintage 60s Ferrari's, a good number of them have been damaged and restored (particularly the race cars). This does not seem to affect their desirability.

 

All in all the car looks nice. I would not let minor accident damage keep me from buying a car but it will make it harder to sell. In 20 years this likely won't be an issue but unless these cars go to 6 figures and as long as they are available in numbers any noted issue will affect price in my opinion. I looked over the photos and noted a few things. None of these are huge issues and there is an outside chance the car came this way but it's worth noting.

It may be the lighting but it appears the two front seats are a shade lighter meaning a partial redye. Not a big deal, makes it look nice.

The front lip on the bottom of the front bumper is faded at a different rate than rest of lower body. Also, on passenger side the front bumper is hanging lower at the rear. On the driver side the lip is hanging away from the bumper at the rear. The bumpers on my car are not fully parallel to the body and I've seen that on a lot of cars, but I have not seen them be inconsistent from one side to the other. This may have been budget repair for that "minor accident" Should be fixable unless tabs have been broken off but then fiberglass repair could take care of that.

The plate in the center console where the window switches and hvac controls are is bulging a bit. Very common and a repair process has been posted around here somewhere.

The rims look fantastic. Looks like the original stenciling is still in place. Mine have been repainted and subsequently chipped up. These rims do look top notch in the photos.

I would want to look at this one in person.

 

It seems at times that there is an overabundance of Ferrari with a brand of some sort on title. My view has been that if the car is repaired well and priced accordingly buy it, wear it out then sell it at a good price to the next owner. Any one remember the red 348 a while back? beautiful car brought a lot of entertainment to folks because of salvage title

 

Interesting how the different sections and groups of owners have differing opinions on damage/previous damaged cars. (Gross generalization) but seemingly owners/buyer of newer cars want $k's of dollars off for a resprayed front bumper or fender. Ford truck scrapes your bumper in a parking lot and you run it through insurance and they go after "diminished value" proceedings. 308/328/mondial owners seem much more easygoing about these things. It's up to each buyer what level of "history" one can live with, yet at the end of the day most stories and history associated with a car is a deterrent to future buyers.

 

My last Mondial was an adventurer and much of it's history has been told. It's the unknown, from its early years, that made it more intriguing.

 

And then you take your thought further and it makes sense. If you're talking about a GTO worth millions, it could have been raced, wrecked, burned to the ground, rusted to bits, but if it's restored properly it can have a very high value.

No one wants a newer car with body work. I'm selling a 2004 Mazda Pickup and people are asking me if it's had any wrecks or body or paintwork. Cars from the 80's are just old cars. Function is very important. Does it look good and go good? A salvage title will be an issue, but we are willing to look at why salvage, again, does it look and go good. Then we get to vintage. People may be so desperate to own such a model that this all goes out the window. But even here, top dollar goes to provenance and documentation. But a raced car that was destroyed 3 times may have more value than one in someones garage and just used. It's a funny market in the Ferrari world. In our little bubble I believe that an equivalent Porsche is much more valued. Look at an 88 911 with 150K miles and some paint work. More value than a Mondial with 70K miles and "WHY DID IT NEED PAINT!!!!!"

 

Theres a difference between Carfax noting damage and "Salvage" Salvage is the Scarlet letter and will definitely cause price issues

HOWEVER what you are seeing here is service being performed and it is further confirmed with additional paperwork and will not reduce the value may actually increase value as frame check is way out of scope of PPI

If you are seriously considering a Red 88 3.2 cab look my way