I bought my first FERRARI and my wifes happy... Bonus

If I took that the wrong way, I apologise.

Was a long day yesterday

 

That's OK Ian,nothing a couple of Boagseys will fix.

 

Now we have settled down, here is the DATA I got from RAWS
The Question.
"Dear Sir
I believe you may be able to assist please
I would like to request the number of Ferrari “456M” Vehicles that came into Australia.
These Vehicles were produced between 1998 and 2004
The first numbers of the VIN number are:

• ZFFWL44D

• ZFFWL50D

The Number 44 represent Manual cars and are called 456M GT
The Number 50 represents Automatic cars and called 456M GTA
The Letter D represents Australia."

The Answer I got was a surprise....
5 Autos 18 manual.

The Five Autos are in the FCA Register the 18 Manuals are any ones guess.
I have one the 17 others....

 

I had my FOI request granted.
The Response only related to cars brought into the country under the Low Volume compliance scheme which was in place from 1997 to late 2003 and is from my understanding how this series of cars was complianced.

There are 2 Manual 456Ms brought under that scheme and mine is the last. The Scheme finished a year into the 612 production so I can safely say there are 2 only 456M code 44D cars in Australia.
I have sent the data to the Ferrari club for their records.
The Cost of the of this request....$9.00 yes.... nine dollars...

 

At MotorClassica I spoke to one of the Guys at the Club Sandwich on Sunday who worked for Vines and he knew of 4 manual 456M's so all I can assume is two were personal imports.
Would love the Vin numbers

 

I am hoping I will get the car back for Christmas.
One less 456M with Valve guide issues, 5 with bad wear, now 48($ouch size bill,- wife not happy$) new guides made of unobtainioum
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Thanks for the pics mate, I love seeing pics like this.

BIG bucks, but at least you will never has this issue again.

 

Pap: you are absolutely correct I will actually be happier now with fresh gaskets in the top end and mainly head gaskets seeing it sat for seven years.

Cam clearances and re-timed cams I am getting quite excited but also cautious hoping no electrical issues don't appear after sitting.
More pictures to come

 

What were the signs of valve guide wear prior to opening the heads? Do the 456 have bronze valve guides like the 355's?

 

Painful process but your car has appreciated significantly you bought it and you're probably still ahead

 

Change that hose under the manifold while you're in there too

 

I have had the guys check the hose but it appears to be silicone so there shouldn't be any drama there however I got them to remove the hose as fitting corrode under the hoses causing a similar problem

Yes the 456M ( only) had the same issue as the 355 and it is written many times on Fchat including the service letter about changing the guides.

Symptoms were classic valve guide issue of smoke at startup but it was the consumption of a 1/2 liter of oil after a spirited run of 200k run and the embarrassment of being passed by a significant plume of smoke while stopped at an intersection that set the decision. Sadly there were 5 inlet Guides that could be seen with the inlet manifold removed coked in carbon.

Yes it has appreciated thankfully and that alone has kept my happy wife happy .. just!... although the comment If I had known I would have not let you buy the car was thrown at me....
I could have done the job my self but I wanted the documented history to reflect that it has been done by a known specialist. The rest of the fettling I will be doing myself and there is the classics to deal with.

I have also had the front bumper repainted while its been laid up and the aircon compressor rebuilt.

 

Silicon hose should have a white line at each end (I think ??????)

 

Good on you mate.

 

K-line guides?

Don't forget to run them in, no more than 4000rpm for a couple thousand k's.

Ferrari has had rubbish valve guides since 1947, can't believe it tòok so long to work out. The benefit of course is upper cylinder lubrication.

 

K Line - Absolutely not - all replace with a set made in the US from what I suspect is a nickel bronze alloy. made to factory Oversize of .3mm OD.

Also, an interesting thought about the running in of Guides at max of 4000 RPM. and the use of upper cylinder lubrication.
Another oil change after 1000ks may be in order

 

You may also have sooted up your catalysts while you've been burning oil. I'd take the car for a 2 hour freeway drive to get them good and hot and blow a lot of gas through. Newcastle and back will do it. I've seen my exhaust mate cut catalysts open which were 50% blocked.

 

The Cats may well be an issue after the car was overfilled with oil by the dealer in Melbourne. It went right through the Breather System and was running out the air Filters!

This was initially blamed for the smoke at start up but oil consumption, nearly matched fuel consumption / dollar, that made me push the point to investigate further.

The smoke did settle down a bit after Auto Italia Canberra in April but became consistently present there after.

It is a good 1.5 hour Freeway trip home trip home from the workshop. I also have some country trips home to my parents home lined up 4+ hours each way. That I am looking forward to big time, fantastic road car for such trips on back country roads.

 

Overfilled the engine oil at the dealer? Idiots!

I know it wouldn't have been cheap to do, but it would have been great to see the leak down test results on this engine before it was pulled apart.

 

Whilst I agree that too many mechanics will encourage expensive tear downs without doing basic tests, the valve guide issue is so well known with 456's that it's a job you've got to do eventually anyway, for both piece of mind and resale.

btw I notice that the F12 TDF has reverted to solid valve gear - I wonder if new owners realise they're going to have a major service bill, having the clearances done every 5000kms?

 

surely not!!

and 5000??

 

The way it was explained to me and I have no reason to dough the credentials of the person who explained this, and for my own reasons and his, I will leave names out, as this is a tech answer.

Leak down check: pressurising each cylinder when the both valves are closed has the tendency to re-seat a valve if it is off center so no indication.

Compression check: now this was an interesting one, you need to pay close attention to the number of increases in pressure and the way they build up.
If you see an inconsistent rises across a number of cylinders with varying amounts of increase in pressure, plus say 7 compression strokes vs 6 This "could" give some indication

In the instance of my car the three points to arrive at the decision were:
1 Known history of 456Ms having an issue with guides
2 Smoke (embarrassing amount on start)
3 Oil consumption as I said LOTS (thats stuff is expensive)

I pushed the point with the exploration, as having been around the oily bits of cars all my tinkering life I wasn't going to be happy unless it was done! and definitive answer found.

Yes its a "new small car" expensive to fix but I am just a custodian of the car for what I hope it will have a long life.

 

I Contacted CHE Precision Products from CHE Precision Inc. who made the guides, recommended by RAMS Heads in Sydney

and asked you question about running in guides and got this response.

"I like priming the oil to 30psi then start the engine idle the engine @ 1500 RPM for 30 min then "drive it like you stole it".
Claude"

 

Totally understand, I just love the diagnosing part of it and would have loved to see the results so I could sit back and go "ahhhhhhh, look at those cylinders".

Sounds like they used the same valve guides in the 355. Malakas!

Aye! Really? Very interesting to hear this.

5000 km's is the going rate for adjustment on solid valve trains.

We have to do it underground on our trucks and loaders every 1000hrs of use. They always need minor adjustments made.

Eurospec's engine builder also told him he will have to check the valve adjustments every 5000 km in the 1000HP+ engine he is building. That engine will also have solid lifters in it.

Imagine trying to get in there to do a valve adjustment on a V12 Ferrari. Looks painful and looks like it will take a week to do.

But I guess if you can afford a new Ferrari F12 TDF, spending $5000 on a service every 5000 km's comes with the territory.

 

I don't like his reply in regards to the leak down test, but let's just leave it that.

Seeing as it was a well known problem in these cars and your car showed all the evidence that some guides were buggered, you definitely had to have the problem fixed.

Fix it once, fix it right and you will never have this problem again.

How many km's on your 456 Graeme?