I tend to agree: I think the fact that the engine would have been provided to two different teams might actually have helped its development. But Ron Dennis knows Adrian Newey very well, because Red Bull has poached Adrian from Ron in 2007, so perhaps he wasn't amused by the idea of Honda providing engines to him? Rgds
With Mercedes engines, McLaren had to make compromises to their chassis design to suit the engine. Now McLaren are with Honda, the want them to design the power unit to be bespoke to the McLaren chassis, and for others to have to modify their chassis designs and suffer any necessary performance compromises, to suit the power unit. McLaren's fear is: 1) Honda would make a more generic power unit design to suit more than one chassis. 2) They could be embarrassed by Red Bull if the Honda power unit worked better in the Red Bull car than in the McLaren - That could be mega embarrassing!
I could be wrong, but one of the things of the v6 engine is that all mounting points etc are identical with all engines.
I think McLaren think Honda could build a very powerful engine, meaning theirnown chassis and aero won't have to be the very best and they could win a title. With red bull Honda, they will almost certainly have better aero and chassis in any case, leaving Mclaren rather annoyed/embarrassed.
Not one point made that I do not agree with. McLaren are either being very smart or kind of shooting themselves in the foot and here is why I say that... 1) Smart because maybe they know something that other teams are not aware of such as huge improvements in reliability (which has been slightly better now) and power for 2016. Also the 2016 car will be completely designed around the Honda PU so they are cornering the market. Heck Honda may not allow the PU to go to any other teams and remain exclusive to McLaren. 2) Hurting themselves by not having another team using the PU to help work out the bugs. If they had such a partner that partner could also design their chassis around the engine. So many variables involved it is hard to keep up.
I believe next year is when Honda and Alonso will both become fed up with mclaren and will look out for Red Bull
You're absolutely right. And not just the engine -> tub mounts, the engine -> gearbox mounts are also specified. Note also that these mounts have been specified for many, many years ahead of the V6 lumps coming along. Here's the relevant section of the regs, my emphasis added; So, in theory at least you could pull out lump "a" & bolt in anything else that's current. Then hang the 'box off that. It'll all fit! Cheers, Ian
Just "noticed" this little tidbit in there too; I recall "back in the day" a machinist we shared a shop with made a decent living for a while making "offset" pickup points for the British Touring car guys; The regs said you couldn't alter the pickup points, but on "production" cars they're so big they'd throw out the OEM rubber bushes & replace with these in which the mounting hole was "offset" from center. No such shenanigans here! Cheers, Ian
The mounting points are identical, but the Honda PU is still "bespoke" to the chassis in that Honda and McLaren worked together to design a package that considers ALL dimensions...not simply those that attach the PU to the survival cell. McLaren has, in recent years, been all about aerodynamics. Much like Renault tried to do for Red Bull, Honda has attempted to make a compact ICU for McLaren. Even Ferrari's first attempt (2014) favored "small/tight/compact" over power. The current formula is an engine (power unit) formula. Mercedes built a power unit and made a car to work around it...they are in year two of developing this concept. Ferrari saw the flaws in the 2014 package and focused on the PU for this year...finally seeing some dividends. I personally believe that Honda/McLaren and Renault/Red Bull have blinders on and are still fooling themselves into thinking that aero is king. I therefore, see no benefit in Honda teaming with RBR along with McLaren.
I'm pretty sure you'll find that there's more to chassis design than how you bolt the power unit into it!
Mateschitz losing patience with Red Bull F1 engine saga Mateschitz losing patience with Red Bull F1 engine saga
Dietrich should not be surprised. F1 is just another marketing venue for his crappy drink and F1 will survive without RB. A'dios
+1 to 2 teams potentially leaving a sport that is failing LOL!??? Red Bull leaving is bad. Nothing else. As if their arrogance is not over-shadowed by Mercedes and Ferrari. Its F1 -- ego is everything and at times self destructive given todays ludicrous situation with respect to engines. Cowards = Ferrari and Mercedes. Period.
I agree in principle, but... I would just point out that Arrivabene was game to provide engines to RB, it was Marchionne who overruled him.
Makes no difference as a decision was made to limit competition for no real good reason. Thats the F1 we have today ....oh well. We wait to see what else develops.
It makes a big difference to me as a Ferrari fan. The man who actually leads the team is game for the competition. The guy that signs the checks is not.
"Red Bull looks set to stay in F1 beyond this weekend's Abu Dhabi grand prix. The team on Wednesday announced the extension of a sponsorship deal with Siemens for the 2016, 2017 and 2018 seasons." grandprix.com
