Test Drove the 488 Today. Cancelled my Order, Sticking to my 458

Profit (China)

 

Don't bet on it: the 2nd gen traction control is the most impressive part of the car
imho, the way it prevents spin outs under the massive torque load is staggering!!

Too bad the rest of the car is so commonplace

 

Interesting post as I have "cross shopped" both cars; I tried to love the Porsche, I really did - but I can honestly say that I would much much rather have a 488 over a 911 Turbo S even for the extra $100k. I drive my FF daily and I can say that its less about the extreme redline experience and more about the entire package. I love the singing V12 but when its in comfort mode the car feels like a super GT. I think the 488 is going to give us "DD" guys a more flexible package that does not need to race to the redline to maximize/enjoy. I guess to summarize - driving a 911 Turbo S never felt special, just sitting in a 488 does (can't wait to order and drive). Sitting next to an FF its going to be one fun garage..

 

Agree. I've owned two 911 turbos and didn't think either one was remarkable. My GT3 was, however, pretty awesome! Haven't driven 488 yet but I can't emagine it being as mundane as the 911 turbo. I do love the 458 and will do a proper comparo when able. I think the 488 will be similar to the 458 but more refined and much faster.

 

I owned so many M3's but BMW has totally lost my business. The last v8 M was incredible. I may buy one to keep.

 

If you meet my DD you will want to keep that too LOL,
95 e36 m3 coupe: still an utter joy after 21 years and 200K miles, i almost get more
thumbs up than with the Italia, then again she too is just a tad modded

 

E36, my first M3!!! Totally great car, mine was purple

 

Correction: Daytona Violet. Mine was Dakar Yellow. I miss her. :^)

 

Well remembered I mainly remember my wifes face when I brought the M3 home "We can't afford that" - That was the start of an expensive car habit that continues to this day (And yes we are still married)

 

I had 997TS , then 991 TS & now 458. 991 TS was a good car. very easy to driver daily, very fast from point A to B. 991 doesn't feel like a rear engine porsche in terms of handling. it handles so well like a MR layout. but after owning 458, I would not trade it for a porsche turbo. porsche maybe faster but the thrill of driving 458 is the best. it's so exciting & the sound of v8 revving till 9k rpm is just awesome.
in fact i just traded in my 2011 458 for a newer 2013 458 with lower millage . I plan to keep 458 & wouldn't consider to upgrades to 488. I'm sure 488 will be faster , brakes & handles better than 458. but for ME, how much faster can we go? for me it's, how U get to your destination rather than how fast U get there.
I've not driven 488 but I think will probably feel something like a 650s which I also own. 650s is lighting fast!

 

Mine was too, 1992 3.0. It's the only colour for that car.

 

+1

 

Curious....have you noticed if the 2013 is quieter than the 2011?

 

Well, I for one have really enjoyed this thread and the insight of all those posting.

As I don't yet own a Ferrari, I don't need to sweat worrying about whether to cancel my 488 order, etc. My foray into the Ferrari world will firmly be a 458.

And by the time I'm ready to contemplate a 488 upgrade, the jury will have certainly weighed in heavily on the 488 ownership experience.

 

Agree 100%. The 991 TTS is quicker off the line, and it's a great DD. Visibility is better, it's easier to park, and, most important, it attracts less (read: almost no) attention. It's a lot of fun to drive fast, slow, and in between. But when i get behind the wheel of my 458, I feel like I'm in another world.

 

Production of the Maserati V6TT and customer F1 engines are somewhere between $250-300M of revenue for Ferrari. (I'm sure the Maser engines are somewhat profitable by design, I think the F1 engines are only profitable if they customer team ever pays - eg. Marussia never did)

The Maserati engines are actually only assembled in Maranello; the blocks are cast in the US at an FCA foundry plant (Kokomo, I believe). The Maser assembly line is heavily automated within the engine assembly plant, whereas the Ferrari engines are still primarily hand-assembled.

Heavy rationale for Ferrari moving to the turbo is 1) increasing tax penalties for 3.9l engines and above in high growth countries 2) more aggressive emissions and mileage regulations, particularly as they move from being "part of FCA" to "independent" (i..e. they can't take advantage of the offset of lots of Fiat 1.4l engines and diesels to cover their numbers). At present, the only practical way to juice up an ICE is with turbos, so that's what we ended up with. They are also wrapping it in some of the usual "F1 uses it, so we'll use it in our road cars, just like ceramic brakes, F1 gearbox, etc" marketing anesthesia.

To be very fair, some may not like it, but IF and WHEN you drive a 488, I think you'll be impressed; I was. Seriously. We can gripe about the "turbo", blah blah blah, but they addressed a lot of the usual shortcomings, it's a sweet engine. (I still prefer the v8 in my Speciale).

For those who claim turbos cannot be "raw and visceral", they can be, and in a violent way (see Porsche 935; or I can relate from years racing my Andial 3.2 single turbo race motor in my race Porsche. I would agree, the current 991 TTS has become over-refined, but hopefully Ferrari can add some brutishness similar to the TTS=> GT2. Quite frankly, I think people would struggle to handle engines like that, or complain about why the TCS is always engaging.

Maserati just announced a 6 week shutdown, which no doubt is going to ding Ferrari's financials.

 

feels the same to me ... but to be fair, I changed the 2013 458 to challenge exhaust on the 2nd day of ownership. it's loud now!! hehehe

 

Engine revenue is tied to Maserati

In 2011, Maserati, a fellow luxury brand in the Fiat Chrysler Automobiles group, contracted with Ferrari for an aggregate 160,000 engines through 2020, with the expectation of increasing that to an aggregate 275,000 through 2023. The agreement will not be affected by Ferrari’s spinoff from FCA.

However, though Maserati has plans for an expanded model range and sales volume, any decrease in the brand’s vehicle shipments would have a direct negative effect on Ferrari’s engine sales. Engine sales to Maserati generated €54 million in net revenue for the first three months of 2015, down from €62 million for the same period in 2014. Ferrari said the decrease was due to a 15% decline in the volume of engines sold to Maserati owing to reduced vehicle shipments.

Before 2015, net revenue from Maserati engine sales had increased steadily from 2012 to 2014. Overall engine sales accounted for 10.3% of net revenue for the first three months of 2015, according to the prospectus

 

Wow! So many positive BMW M3 reviews in one Ferrari thread. Last of the naturally aspirated seems to be more than just words

 

The 2012+ is only quieter if the 2010 model has the original software. Chances are that every 2010/2011 model you will come across is on the newest update and thus be exactly the same as 2012+. Ferrari automatically updates the ecu without even telling you at every single service. I recon there are only a handful cars in existence that have this software. only people that actually know that there is a difference. I only know of four cars that have this original ecu.

 

I'm sure Ferrari has done a far better job with the 488 and making it still feel and sound like a Ferrari should. That been said, it seems like more then a few of the folks that bought the older V8 M3's are now rather disilusioned with the new Turbo cars. New owners on the whole BTW seem very happy with the Turbo cars. So maybe its just a case of different expectations based on your prior experiences. Maybe it will be a similar experience with the 488...maybe not... I have not had the pleasure of driving one so I have no right to an option yet.

 

further off-thread....or perhaps this IS the main point

I've owned every version of the M3 since 1995, up until a few years ago.

The V8 engine was great....though I found the car less edgy overall and did not like the gearbox. The '95 and '97 I had were a beautiful match of engine and gearbox (similar to the 355 and gated 6 speed).

To me, the BMW turbo engines are ok - I owned 2 X5M's across 6 years. Good, strong, but not great. Crippled by the gearbox, and in both of my cases the engines breaking repeatedly above 60K miles.

My personal view: BMW has focused more on form over substance with their M versions in the last few years, the cars have lost their edge. Porsche has gone similar with the 991, but still keeps it somewhat pure with GT3 and derivatives. Audi, M-B all have their hotter/sportier versions, but the (original) AMG and RS variants seem to be lacking.

 

Do you have rev the engine over 7500 rpm ?

 

+488. Not that it really matters, but the "they have to go turbo for Maserati"-theory appears extremely far fetched, no matter whether they are indications in the offering memorandum which suggest this theory or not.