Spy shot of the '2016' FF

I can't see the point in comparing the FF with other Ferraris. It was commissioned by Luca to satisfy a demand that was made by me and many others at the time when we,as a group after being asked that is, said we wanted a car that could be a daily driver, was not so fragile that it needed special attention, could carry a decent amount of luggage to enable ski trips, holiday trips and all else in between and was to all intense and purposes more practical than a 612 which albeit a good car was not a 4 x 4 or a hatchback so the F12 programme went two ways to include the FF which came out first so as not to hamper sales of the 599 GTO
As for them not being popular the figures speak for themselves so never mind opinion which is always biased the F12 has sold in the UK 259 units including 8 on SORN and the 'much less popular' FF has sold 207 including 4 on sorn. I would hardly call 50 units less in 4 years a tragic figure.
All Ferraris are wonderful......some are a nightmare and some will do your head in...others just eat your wallet and some end up not going to the Ball......a bit like women really.

 

The image of the red car above is similar to a number of pictures I have seen on the net (such as the one I have attached in grey - absolutely love the look!). Does anyone know how accurate it is or is it the same source being repeated everywhere?

As far as FF and other Ferraris go, I could never say the 360 was a 'joke' and I suspect that is not quite what Brian L meant. A 360 was my first Ferrari and it was as much a Ferrari as my Speciale, which is my absolute favourite. It had me hooked instantly and I loved it, it was beautiful, visceral, noisy, and yes, a little intimidating. In fact it started me on an automotive journey that other brands had never really done and has resulted in my understanding of driving and the dynamics behind that being immeasurably improved over the last five years.

Also though, the FF. I suspect it is just the sort of car that will do quite well as a 'classic'. It is rare - in fact the rarest other than the special edition models like LaF - since only about 500 are produced per annum against 1,500 F12 and about 3,500 458/488. It also has groundbreaking technology and a beautiful but increasingly rare V12 power train. The drawback of course, is that its appearance challenges convention. Personally I like it and have just bought one, though for reasons different to appearance. I was in two minds when it came out in 2011 but I have come to appreciate and understand it more over the few years since it arrived. I think it will fare better than people expect, though not as well as some of the wonderful V12s of the past, Daytona springing readily to mind.

I can see where Brian is coming from regarding the car; the V12 experience is more weighty and substantial (I'm not talking about kgs). The engine is really amazing. But it's the packaging of the car that is its real asset - genuine space for four with decent luggage space, a beautifully presented interior and an engaging 'all-season' drive.

It's not without its faults though and both the F12 and FF leave room quite easily for the V8s which are much more tactile to drive (including the 360). The FF has this issue with tramlining which on British 'B' roads can be very unnerving. I'm still learning the car and the weather in the UK has been 2-8 degrees and very wet recently (but then, being able to drive a Ferrari in these conditions is part of the point of the FF). Although the 4wd system helps traction, I think the V8s would make up for a large part of that with added feel, assuming that you have decent tyres on. I took a fast country drive yesterday in wet conditions and did not feel any more sure about the FF than I would have my Speciale or my previous 12C in particular. The FF is a luxury car and you feel a little more insulated from the action than with the V8s therefore the feeling of speed is always higher in the V8s, nevertheless, driving an FF in inclement conditions is not the point and squirt experience I imagined it would be.

Once there is snow on the ground things will be different, but for wet weather the 4wd system ends up mainly counteracting another drawback of the car, namely a lack of steering feel. This is partly due to the wider front tyres and heavier frontal weight compared with a mid V8, I suspect, and is therefore a feature of the car, its comfort and its packaging rather than a drawback per se.

I mentioned the tramlining issue on another thread and apparently there are a set of geometry settings that can help, no one has posted what they are yet so I can't work out what the trade-off might be.

At the end of the day, these cars are different so to some degree you 'pays your money and takes your choice' but it is a choice, neither format fits all uses.

As far as this thread is concerned, I like the picture I have shown and the red car posted earlier. I would like the FF (and I am almost certain I will be buying a new one) to retain its packaging, 4wd drivetrain, V12 engine and add to it sharper looks, improved usability on smaller and poor condition roads and possibly a little extra steering feel, though not at the expense of being able to fulfil genuine GT duties.

Some things I have to reserve judgement on because I have not had the opportunity to drive on warm, twisting, high quality tarmac yet nor on winter tyres (which will be fitted shortly) but assuming all is as everyone seems to say, then evolution not revolution will do the trick for the new car.
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Back seat going to be claustrophobic with that solid B pillar

 

Good info on the commissioning. It's a monster machine and I'll have mine forever if possible. Thank you.

The more one drives the FF, in different conditions, it's stature goes up. I'm at 3200 miles and it never disappoints. The only need is a smaller fun car for the track and a cab. I can't afford a 458 Speciale Aparta so a 2016 911 GTS cab will do just fine



I would also like to see the alignment specs.

Part of me hopes they F up the FF so my car will have more value, part of me thinks that any changes will be a real shame.

 

Not accurate at all.
And as said before the new one has four (4) taillights anyway.

Marcel Massini

 

So the FF will be the ONLY Ferrari with 4 (four) taillights? Why is that? Personally I would never like to see that again since I like current taillight setup...!

 

Change for changes sake I fear.

 

Because otherwise justifying upgrading to a new model to get only a tiny power increase when it looks pretty much identical is going to be a tough sell to existing owners I would think!

 

This thread showed that most owners appreciate usability in first place - not design. So if someone took FF in 2012, he will probably sell his car to dealer and take brand new FF to serve same purpose as his previous car. Minor power update & few bits changed on exterior will be pretty enough for FF facelift.

On other hand, if Ferrari wants to bring up current sale numbers, they need to adress some design issues, and maybe ditch 4WD system in favor of electric motors - V12 powering rear wheels, and electric motors front wheels.

 

I love it when people think Ferrari is clueless.

Why would they do either of these things? Electric motor for the front would help sales how? Do you have an FF? The front PTU is very light and the V12 DOES power the rear already.

Why do people think sales are bad? They are not that far behind the F12 and it's a a very unique car. Twice the money of a Panamera, for example. The rear end is perfect. Headroom, and storage.

 

Because it's the only Ferrari that seats FOUR

 

Well, the California vs California T has the same rear taillights. No I do not think Ferrari will change the taillights, not even IF they come out with a more coupe'ish FF (FC?).

 

I have heard that the facelift FF will also feature four wheel steer, like the F12 TDF.

 

I don't think they gonna change the roof line but they do need to work hard in putting more sex appeal into the design.
Would love to see a V-8 option for 50k less list price IMO it would have plenty relevance in the market place
My guess is you'll see a bigger V-12 probably 6.8 liters 760hp 0-62 in 2.8 - That would be nice nah

 

Personally I would like to see coupe`ish FF, but time will tell what Ferrai decided.

Here is one more render:
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Not sure if this article was posted in the this thread already and I missed it.

Ferrari FF facelift to keep V12, but customers are in for a surprise

Ferrari has announced the upcoming facelift for the FF will continue to be powered by the V12 naturally aspirated engine.
A mid-cycle facelift for the Ferrari Four has been in the works for quite some time as we shared spy images way back in January. Now, the company is finally starting to talk about the model. The all-paw prancing horse will stick to its 6262cc V12 engine as it represents the company’s “pinnacle”, according to Enrico Galliera, Senior Vice-President Commercial & Marketing.
Ferrari is currently “working to further innovate the car” and promises the facelifted FF will bring a “surprise” for clients of the brand. It’s not known at this point what this actually means, but there are some rumors suggesting the 2016 FF will gain an electric motor. If this is true, expect output to be boosted from the current 660 PS (485 kW) to somewhere in the region of 700 PS (515 kW). Consequently, the amount of torque available will also grow from the existing 683 Nm (504 lb-ft).
Aside from the extra oomph, the FF facelift is believed to go on a diet thanks to a carbon fiber roof. It could also gain active aerodynamic body parts, a new 8-speed gearbox, and an updated four-wheel drive system.
An official reveal is expected to occur in March 2016 at the Geneva Motor Show.

 

Before i bought my 2013 (used) FF a couple of months ago, i was considering ordering a new current shape FF. When i enquired, my dealer told me that the glass roof was now a standard, non deletable item. Great i thought, a free pan roof! But no, Ferrari made it standard but just added it to the cost of the standard car. Only Ferrari could get away with doing this!

At that point i started to wonder if maybe they wanted to use up a stock of glass roofs because there was a change of roof shape coming. I am now hearing that is likely the case. Will be interesting to see what they do.

 

I think the design on the right, while subtle, dramatically improves the car.

 

Personally, I love the FF. However, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of FF sales being propped up by the dealerships twisting the arms of customers who wanted a 458 Spider, Speciale, F12, to purchase a FF from them first to move up the list for the car they really wanted.

Couple this with the fact that used FFs stay on dealer's lots for an awfully long time - and you start to get the picture for why people think FF sales are bad. For instance, I had my eye on a FF with a MSRP of $368k that's been for sale since July. The price keeps floating downward, now in the very low 200s. It's an incredibly well spec'ed car at a more than fair asking price. If the FF were such a great seller, this would have been gone weeks/months ago.

Now with the rumor mill swirling about what the revised FF will be like - it's got to be putting the carbon ceramic brakes on new/used FF sales. People are in a wait and see mode.

 

Thanks for the update - Maybe the electric motor will replace the 4RM and drive the front wheels ? Then we can have all wheel drive through ALL the gears

 

Great news re the V12. Not sure about the desirability of an electric add-on. Complexity and cost. Another forward gear is not needed or desirable IMO. We will see what it looks like.

 

I'm looking forward to this. I'm sure they've heard all the feedback and will address these issues.

My own guesses are they will not so quickly abandon the 4RM PTU so quickly- its pretty innovative and they already made the investment and the weight penalty is likely a lot lower than going with electric motors and batteries for the front drive. Very glad they are sticking with the NA V12.

You will probably all laugh a bit but I think a few things to enhance the daily drivability would be improved Nav/ electronics, blind spot assist type system as well as offering a heated steering wheel.

I realize these are not typically important items for your typical Ferrari, but then again the FF is not your typical Ferrari.

PS- I also had an issue with tramlining with the FF when I had one. We never could quite solve it.

 

Agree, 8 gears will do no more than lower the first seven. What's the point of that. It's a GT for crying out loud. If you want it to look more like a F12 then buy an F12 and if you want more power in a GT maybe it isn't a GT you need.
Used ones don't hang around in the UK or Europe very long and prices are very strong with the very earliest 2011 still at around £150,000
My arm wasn't twisted when I ordered mine. I got a good deal but then we all get good deals if we ask for them.
And as for electric..........when China stops choking the world I'll consider it.

 

If Ferrari decide to put electric motors I assume main goal will be better fuel economy, not ecology in first place. FF is designed as powerful GT, so higher mpg is very desirable for every FF owner.