On one hand probably none of us can drive these cars to their potential, so whjetehr they are manual or paddle is not the most relevant factor in lap times. On the other hand I long ago split my car collection into those for the street, where drivign entertainment(over paper spec) is paramaount, and those primarily for track, where robusteness and relative speed(ie skill based speed) is important. One car I have that can mostly do both is a Lotus although its still better at the street. My Boxer would go on track once a year not to push but purely for a bit of light hearted fun, however its great on street if you know what you are doing, full of feedback, and requiring total immersion. You have to work hard for the speed but once rolling no on else is realisticaly going quicker on street, they are just less challneged in a 458. My Gt40 is technicaly street legal, but in actuality a pure track car. So a Fgt that would be an almost pure track car. I dont think such a machine would be great driving fun on road unless say you were in Germany or the ME and could really wring it out. But then lightening laps which car mags do are also irrelevant to me. A 20 lap average time is far more important, and that seperates the wheat from the chaff in terms of cars. For example a new Z06 can do a great fast lap but not 20, whereas a viper can. My guess is over the course of a day the FGT will be hard to beat in terms of enjoyment and even sustained performance, hence its appeal. So yeah if I had a Fgt it woudl be the same as if I had a F40 and the same as my GT40, a car to play with on track, maybe it would get driven to the track on occasion, but realisticaly more likely to be trailered there with spare wheels and slicks. These ulta high performance cars can only really be exploited and enjoyed on track. For most the setup to make them useable on street and give best paper specs means they are nanyfied and bland below 9/10ths on street and wont hold up to 9- 10/10ths on track for too long. Thats the pattern of nearly every supercar I see out there. I get the impression that the FGt is built form a different mold, its peed comingn from light weight, exceptional aeros and robustenes for a track enviroment, not electronic trickery and excess Hp. In that sense its imbued with the track virtues of the origional Gt40, but in a throughly modern package, hence its appeal. Too bad its unobtanium. For 300k and some volume here is my deposit.
Baloney. Pure baloney. It's a PR "halo" car for the streets which is why they are making a road going version. This not the Ferrari FXX that is only made for the track. Its Ford's "LaFerrari" or McLaren's P1. They are making a race version that probably has very little in common with the street car. Not the other way around.
Because large manufacturers are required to build 100 road cars for FIA homologation. You know, for actual competition.
Which is why IMO this car is > Ferrari LaFerrari/F XXK, Porsche 918, McLaren P1 or any other supercar. All the other supercars are pointless "how rich are you" vehicles that are too scared to really race (and no manufacturer only events is not real racing IMO). Ford are doing it how it used to be done, ie. build a car that gets FIA homologated so you can prove yourself where it counts, on the track not magazine articles. Hats off to Ford for having the balls ... again. Pete
On this point I can agree. But why not build some road going cars with manuals? Or is it not possible given the market size or the purpose of the vehicle. You know, like Ferrari and McLaren say.
You're correct that being homologated for FIA competition doesn't mean it is essential they road and race cars be extremely similar, but in the GT's case it is true.
Is Ford hurting itself by not offering a manual for the purist and honoring the heritage of the GT40?
Superformance, RHD sill shift, worked 302, all built to track spec. The guys with "real" ie old data plate ones always compliment it on track because I can really drive it without fear of destroying millions of dollars of data plate provenance. As to the differences with a 60s build, well it uses aluminum not magnesium uprights, the brakes are 4 piston not 2 and the rotors are vented. The block is a 302 not a 289 and the instruments may have some detail differences. The tub is exact as is the suspension transaxle and bodywork. I know where those "restored" old cars got their tubs and bodywork to attach to the dtata plate, but thats another story for another thread.. You may notice that while the livery is 60s inspired no GT40 ever carried that livery, that way no anoraks are in danger of being fooled into thinking I am pretending this is a 60s build. Plus I just wanted it painted that way. Lots of fun to play, learn and grow with. Surprisingly swift on track even in corners. Its also catchable. Still need to loose 12 secs at monticello to get to viper acr times, but then still sorting the car motor and driver. I can see where the time will come from, so its doable. With price escalations I cant afford a "real" old one, and the old ones mostly cant get used in anger due to value. I built this up in lieu of getting a new 458 or Mp12 after extensive test drives, I guess my priorities are just different, hence the appeal of the new GT. Yeah I know a radical is probably faster still, but then thats a completly different experience. As a wise old racer said to me many years ago, "its not just how fast you go, but also how you go fast that counts" Undoubtably true for those of us who are not pro and dont earn our daily bread from winning on track. Running on track to the extent one is serious about it, is a totaly absorbing skillful art/hobby, not a job. Image Unavailable, Please Login
They do, its called the Gt350R. The purpose of this vehicle is to win on track. If they wanted to do a street version for entertainment driving then a v8 would sound and probably run better and work well with a manual too. In fact that is what the prior FGT was, a car that would have been no more appealing than a ferrari to drive if it were paddle only. Now if what you are driving at that ferrari is all about tech I can see an arguement as to why ferraris like the fordGt can be paddle only. But Ferraris in so many other way hew to the traditional, and sell on image and history. They are in the end more luxury very high performance street cars than anything else. The race tech such as it is in ferraris is more ersatz to thrill the customer with race tech, kinda like sheilds. Ferraris are really about an emotive experiential driving experince on street, where sadly much of the experince part is being blanded out. Paddles "only" are but one symptom of this. None of which is to say that ferrari does not build really appealing fast cars and great motors, but they are fast luxury cars for the street with some awesome styling, great potential speed and sound..
No the Gt40 is being honored by building a race winning vehicle that is also potentialy roadable, just, while being great looking and using ford power. Same formula as a Gt40 then. The purist can buy a Gt350, in that regard ford unlike ferrari offers a choice.
Very nice and I have the utmost respect for Superformance. A friends dad wanted a Daytona w/Hillborn injection but I think he went with a Cobra. Awesome car, congrats.
Ford is oversold on this car, so not hurting itself at all, its a halo car, not a core product. Maybe ford is hurting itself by not investing in greater production. Now if ford wanted to sell 7k of these per year, my guess is they would need more than a few derivatives, just like the vette offers many derivatives, or even the mustang. The ford brand also does not depend on a customer base for this car, that hat is worn by the F150 of which there are numerous derivatives. Now ferrari they are not quite making 7k cars per year anymore, they also want to get to 10k units. That means either appealing to more fashionistas or appealing to curently disafected purists by offering drivers cars. A manual may or may not be a big part of the drivers car equation, there are in fact many componants to what makes a drivers car.
You've clearly never driven a Scud if you think paddles make an experience dull. If you think an MP4 drives anything like a 458, then that is also a strike against your credibility. ...and I still can't get over you putting a 3600 and fifty pound mustang on a pedestal over the 458 which was a monster in racing for various teams in various series. Want to talk about useless tech? The GT350R has carbon fiber wheels. LOL and yipee...that is like a 300lb woman drinking a diet coke at McDonalds with her Big Mac.
I don't understand all the negativity of why Ford didn't use a V-8, offer a manual transmission, etc. What is amazing is that Ford is actually, once again, going to build a car with GT40 roots. The V-6 Ecoboost is already race proven, and it helps narrow the cockpit, which helps the drag big time. No reason on a 1,000 car run, to give options like the manual tranny. They will have no problem selling them out immediately, no matter the price. And how about a car that will weigh less than 3,000 lbs, probably less. I see this as a Ford technology mule, that will transform their future cars for years to come. I just think its way cool that a major manufacturer, is doing something this extreme, and I hope the mid-engine Corvette follows this same path.
Nope never driven a scud. Do remember earlier in this thread complimenting a cs and saying I am under the impression that a speciale may make a really fun track car. Dont think any of these is really for the street or as engaing as others on the street even if street legal. Have driven both a mp12 and 458 extensively as well as 997 gt3 and a carrera Gt. If you want an extensive comparison of the two (mp12 and 458) I have posted it before. The two porches were infinitely more fun on the street. Suffice it to say at road speeds both ferrai 458 and mp12 both are, you need to be at 9/10ths or above for these cars to be really exciting and thats not a road attainable speed, thats the point, maybe a scud is the same?. As for the track where their speed/excitement might be relevant the Mclaren is the more duarble of the two, but neither is really a track car in the way we suppose the FGT is.. Do you track your scud regularily. Not sure where you think I am placing a mustang on a pedestal above a ferrari, what I am pointing out is that the mustang offers a more dynamic driving experience at any type of sane road speed, while also being able to play just fine on track. Yes the weight will work against tires, and yes the mustang is going to be slower than the ferrari. But the wet weight of a 458 is not so light either and the mustang wont consume most peoples yearly earnings in a day, or really be that much slower. Consumables cost is the reason why even the wealthy dont track a 458. At least i nevr see one at the track, and hardley any ferraris, why is that? As to your comment about CF wheels, it indicates you know little about suspesion dynamics. The key difference between a Gt350 and 350R are the wheels (with relevant suspension tuning)and their laptimes are significantly different(real weight diffrence is 100lbs). Unsprung weight is the single greatest handling virtue that can be imbued upon a given car. Thats why you see those cool tubular aluminum a arms on some cars, and that is the supposed real advantage of Cf brakes On wheel its all magnified, you loose rotational mass gain steering turn in, accleration, braking. On a street driven car not so relevant, on track its epic. Read up on suspesion and how it works, see why Chapman was a genius. When you reduce unsprung weight you can go softer on springs and shocks allowing the suspesion to work more and over a wider range. What ford is and others are doing now is great, the real useable performance delta to a ferrari has significantly shrunk. Ferrari imo needs to get its street cred back amongst those who actualy DRIVE, Ferrari more a cool brand and great sdesign than epicaly standout cars.
I am very happy that Ford is using the V6 Eco-Boost mainly because I am a turbo guy but try to understand others opinion about offering a manual trans. For myself and if I was going to drop $400+K on a vehicle I want the choice and we all damn well know that Ford has a 6-speed manual available.
