For that reason (lack of title), I think a factory car would be worth less, honestly. Does anybody know if any '95's were factory challenge cars or all dealer conversions?
But if you did have a street legal factory built Challenge car with race history...could you imagine how valuable that would be? Must be in McLaren F1 territory. But who am I kidding, such a unicorn can't possibly exist. Ahhh to dream.....
There definitely are some 348's that fit that description, just not sure on 355's. As it's a spec series,not really sure it matters who assembled the car, they were all technically the same...
Well, generally speaking I find it curious that someone would go into business and take financial risk with something they know nothing about. I would think that if you're an experienced car dealer with a deep reputation, you would have a great deal of knowledge about the cars you buy and sell in order to provide the clients with solod, reliable information to ensure they're making an educated decision and getting a good value. Maybe it's just me but my expectation when I'm buying a car is that the dealer should know more about the car than I do. After all, the dealer is the professional; I'm just an enthusiast car collector. Nothing loses credibility in my eyes more than when I constantly have to correct a dealer's misinformation about a car he or she is selling. If I can't trust their knowledge on a car, what can I trust?
Sounds like he's trying to get that knowledge, no? There are a lot of minutia surrounding the challenge cars that even people knowledgeable about them don't know for certain. For example, were there any factory '95 challenge cars or were they all converted street cars? I think there was a 'challenge prep' option available, but how would you know if a car came like that without the window sticker and when was it available? Later I believe the id tag specified them as a challenge, but for the early cars how would you tell?
As per article I attached earlier in this thread, there were 95 355 Ch cars that were ordered as a Challenge car. To complete such a Ch car, bits were still installed at the dealership. As model years went by, more of the bits were installed at the factory but there were always items that were installed at the dealership to complete the 355 kit. Robb posted in a different thread a few months ago regarding this. This is where he started referring the Type A and Type B Challenge cars. IIRC, he referred to Type A as factory-ordered while B is fully converted at the dealership. I don't have the numbers of 95 models that are Type A and B, but Robb may be putting this together. For me, period Ch race history with street-legality and with kit still intact is most important in valuing a particular Ch car. The race history helps assure at one point that a car had the proper Ch spec as it was completed and inspected at a factory-authorized dealership.
Right, but were they marked as challenge cars on the data plate (like later cars) or just a street car with the 'challenge prep' option at that point? As I said, even with those knowledgeable here it's a bit murky.
I personally have not seen a 95 with a Challenge data plate. I also wouldn't go as far as calling the 95s "just" a street car with the Challenge prep. There were 95s that were successful in the actual race series against the ones with "Challenge" on the id plate. But then again, this is my bias towards actual race history.
It's a spec series, it doesn't really matter who put the car together (imo). I'd value where it was built behind race history and street legality personally. They're all 'just' street cars with challenge prep, that was the point of the series.
That's exactly the allure for me to the Challenge Cars. If not for the 94-95 I would have no interest in this model and stay with a street car. As bad as the Challenge is on the street it's just rush of it all.
Sure but wouldn't that be a prudent thing to do before you purchased a car and marketed it for sale. IIRC, he already listed a sales price in this thread but it doesn't sound like he knows what it is. There's nothing wrong with being more educated. We can all use that, over and over. However, last I checked, we were all a bunch of amateur lovers of cars and not professional dealers or traders.
It is great that he is reaching out to learn. Every businessman that is innovative has to at some point (and often) begin learning something they dont know about.
Back to the original topic about Challenge car prices-- with the Euro dropping so much, Challenge cars are much cheaper in Europe. I just saw a 458 Challenge Evo for $135,000 and most 458C's were a good 35% less than they are here in the USA. Given they are not street legal and all Challenge cars are the exact same car worldwide, it makes sense to buy one from Europe and ship it over.
LOL I hate you. That's so tempting but the support tools to maintain the car will cost a small fortune
Half the fun is educating yourself on these cars and the other half of the fun is getting an opportunity to buy one and drive it.
The car was listed with only days to get as much info as possible do where better to gain this knowledge than from owners. I showed you the pics and the vin and you all said buy it it's a genuine car that raced in the 1996 series so I bought it. Now I see prices all over he place and just wanted know exactly what we have.I know it's a berlinetta that got the challenge treatment and then obviously the 1998 rear wing. Then it was registered for road use in Japan in 2001 and was detuned if you like for road use by adding road suspension removal of the second Oilcooler and fitting an exhaust adjustable baffle the more. No dealer becomes an expert overnight and anyone who claims to be an expert on all cars is a liar. I learn something new every day about old cars and as I said this is our first ferrari so here seems to be the best place to learn. Now if you ask me questions about alpinas or BMW I would talk your head off but ferraris not so sure yet. I do know the car is serviced and in great condition so that's my part done, getting a background on these cars is why I joined. No car dealer I know more about a such a wide range of cars than I do yet these are professional?
The boys are just having fun with you All love here Looked at you FB page would love a car from over that way one day, would have to be a really strange one
Now we are getting somewhere. Can you please explain to me what is so special about Alpinas and why they go for so much more money than the corresponding BMW model. I have never understood that. Also, I didn't see a post with pictures of your car but between everyone here, there is a ton of knowledge on the Challenge cars, even if we don't all agree on some of the nuances.
Well on the Alpina we have at the moment it's an E24 Alpina B7 turbo number 29 out of approx 110 built. The factory car would have been a 635csi N/A manual with about 215 bhp. The Alpina puts out about 350 bhp. This is not just a quick engine upgrade by alpina it's a complete stripdown of the original car from new and a total rebuild from the ground up by them. The vin number is belonging to alpina so any alpina you see with a bmw vin is a clone and there are many clones out there so you have to be careful. The reason for the prices is both performance related and the fact that it's an exclusive car. Ours is a manual with 86k kms from 1985 so it's a special car and in its day was taking down porsche 911 turbos on the autobahn
I made a mistake. The 458C was not $135K it was $185K. I saw it listed for 125,000 and thought it was in Euros (which would be $135K dollars) but it is 125,000 British pounds which is $185,000. That makes more sense.
