'classiche' ?

Price varies dramatically depending on model.

Answers to all the other questions are open to dispute.

It is safe to say though that whatever value it might have will be less on lesser important or lesser valued cars.

As far as it's value to you that can only be answered by you. As far as need, there is no need.

 

Well said Brian! I would only add that unless the car is exactly the way it came out of the factory, don't bother.

 

However, it wasn't a factor in the purchase or the purchase price.

It was more of an interesting "nice to have". Although, it did add to the extensive documentation that the previous owner maintained on the car.

The Classiche certification is what I consider a "Point-in-Time" document. It certifies that on that specific date (that the inspection was one), that the car met the Ferrari Classiche standards. After that date, there's no guarantee that the car is still in the same condition. Especially if a number of years have passed.

Having said that, the Classiche documents themselves are very interesting, and make a very, very nice addition to the car documents. It's a nice binder, with one of the pages listing the specs that the car was delivered with, including paint and interior. I'm very happy to have it. I've taken it with the car to one of the shows I've attended. It seems to be popular with onlookers (or perhaps with other owners whom are considering the process).

As I mentioned, it wasn't a factor in my purchase decision. And, it didn't raise the price of the car over other similar condition cars. For me, the best thing was that it helped verify that the other maintenance records were correct and trustworthy.

If money is no object, I'd recommend the process, not because it adds value to your car, but because it gives the owner another interesting, neat, and cool document to go with the car. If you are looking for a return on investment - maybe it wont be worth it.

Sid

 

To those that do understand what the Classiche inspection is I think that goes without saying. What I do remind people of though is if you are buying a car that is 30 or 40 years old with a 2 or 3 year old Classiche inspection it answers a great many unknowns for the first 90+ % of its life and your focus can be more directed to what happened in the last 2 or 3 years. To some that is a big difference.

 

I agree with Sid and others. The Classiche certification is subjective and open to interpretation. It dose say on this date this car was certified to be factory original. There are some other advantages depending how you intend to use your 308. I like to show my 308 and because it is Classiche certified it was accepted at Quail Motorsport Gathering and Carmel by the Sea (August 2015). My 308 went through the program in 2006 and since then I have added several FCA platinum awards and a FCA preservation (2014) & Cavallino Classic (2015) preservation awards. My 308 also has a FCA National Classic Preservation Award from 2003. All together this paints a history of my 308 over time and sure if I stop showing it today, some will question is it still in that condition.

Another reason for having a 308 certified would be if you intend to participate in any Ferrari S.p.A. or FNA driving events (rally or track). With a certified Ferrari you are invited & eligible to enter all factory sponsored events worldwide.

I was invited to a party for Classiche owner's at Casa Ferrari in Carmel this past summer. While, Casa Ferrari was open to all Ferrari owner's, Classiche owner's received extra perks.

So, I see the Classiche certification as just another tool in my toolbox to get into big name shows. The certifications says to show organizers & judges that I have taken that extra step to prepare & document my 308's history. My goal is to eventually get my green 308 into Amelia Island (2022 - 40 years old) and maybe Pebble Beach 2024, God willing. Many tell me I'm crazy but they were also shocked when I got into Quail. No matter what happens in the future, the Classiche certification has contributed to a green 308 becoming an over achiever.
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I'd like to add one other value point for three other possible scenarios:
a) For cars (like mine) which have an undocumented past, or
b) for which the documents are lost to history (well documented service receipts binder lost or not conveyed with the car in a sale, for example).... or
c) for a car recovered from a total loss (may or may not have been salvage titled at some point)

In these cases, Classiche may be the only widely accepted authoritative way to (re)establish the car's authenticity at that one point in time.

 

You don't have to go that far. I got the build date, ship date, original dealer and color from FNA for free.

 

Yep, one can always get the 4 basic facts from FNA for free (or so I gather, from here; however, I'm waiting over 6 weeks now, with no response yet from FNA for my car's details).

My point is just that that scant information doesn't compare to a full certificate of 100% authenticity from Ferrari, for an otherwise undocumented car.

In my car's case, because of the 10-year records limitation in some states, it may be impossible to document its history all the way back to when it originally left Maranello. In this case, Ferrari's rigorous certification of authenticity may have value, because the car is otherwise undocumented. One might say that Classiche certification would re-establish the car's pedigree, as it came from the factory when new; the $5-6K cost could therefore be thought of as equivalent to the value of a full set of historical records from new, for another Ferrari.

 

I asked Classiche if they could document EXACTLY how my car rolled out of the factory...hood louver and rocker panel color specifically. They said they COULD NOT guarantee it. I certainly wouldn't call that "a full set of historical records."

I would like to have the nice book but I'm content to know my car is a red Ferrari 308 GTS QV (Euro spec) delivered to the Italian market. I'm not sure Classiche could provide much more than that and I saved $5400 (July 2015).

Less than $100 fully documents my 1967 GTO through Pontiac Historical Services. Actual copy of build sheet, dealer invoice, VIN and cowl tag decoder, and reproduction window sticker included. Money well spent.

Mark

 

I still don't see the point in a Classiche for a 3X8. Ferrari really can't help you with them. They cannot tell you anything that is really important such as a service history or if it has been wrecked and fixed.

All they can tell you is it is they built it - and if you don't already know that... Anything more, you are own your own to figure out the rest.

Unless you have a 250 SWB, etc, just forget about it.

 

Hey Tommy,
I disagree, Classiche tells you if every major component (engine, trans, rear) is original and if the numbers match, other components like fuel injection, suspension, EU System, frame, interior, all have to be factory correct, not necessarily original and everything is pictured. They also checked for rust. Not every Ferrari gets certified and many have to be repaired before certification is granted. My certification was a very intense inspection process which happened during a trip to Florida and involved three dealerships (Algar, Classic Coach in Edison NJ & Ferrari of Orlando). I did not have to make any repairs but I did have to request a second & third inspections and multiple opinions to convince FNA & Classiche S.p.A. that my 308 is original. Since I was friendly with the service mangers at all three dealerships I was in on several phone calls and argued on my 308's behalf. The discussions were about a door-skin and rocker panels that were replaced. Classic Coach documented that the repairs did not detract from the integrity of the car. I was lucky that my 308 was in FNA's body shop being transported down to Ferrari of Orlando at the time.

 

I sent in my VIN, engine number and transmission number to FNA ( I found them myself in about a minute). They wrote me back telling me the day my car was completed (Jan 28, 1984), When it was shipped to America, where it went and the original color. It had two options deep front spoiler and metallic paint (and I guess that rear QV spoiler thing but pretty much every US car had one). I was able to confirm that they were original to the car from the papers that came with it.

But when you have to have a dealer(s) here "convince" Classiche it is original, it makes me wonder what is the point fooling with them to begin with unless you just want the papers. Unless your car is in Italy and in the Classiche garage at the factory, they are totally dependent on what the dealer's opinion is - which, again, begs the question, if you are simply wanting to confirm originality, why fool with Ferrari at all beyond the dealer?

That is why I don't see any value in it for me. Again I honestly don't see the point for one of our cars or newer - unless you just want a certificate.

When I bought my 308 from John Apen, he had sitting next to it in his garage what he believed to be the very first California Spider. He found the car in Puerto Rico and in a state of disrepair. THAT is where I see Classiche's true value - in evaluating the pre-Fiat era's mostly bespoke cars. Who knows if it was the first Spider California? Who knows if it even was originally a convertible? Who knows if the fog lights are original? Who knows if the front bumper style is original? Who knows if the car was always red? Who knows if the engine is original to the car? Classiche is tailor-made for something like that because there is no other way to ever really be sure.

We can take any 308 to Brian Crall and get checked off for component originality once FNA confirms our engine and transmission are correct. That is easy.

I'm not knocking anyone for getting it, I am just saying we don't have to go to the trouble and expense 99% of the time for a later Fiat era car if information is all you are wanting. John Apen doesn't have a choice for that Cali Spider.

 

Who here has gone through the entire process ? What's it like ? What happens if a car fails? I'm assuming we won't get anyone admitting that one, but it would be good to know why it failed, and do they give you the chance to correct and get the pass and acceptance?

I was always intrigued by it, and would like to do it , but don't feel it's worth it from the pricing I've heard.

 

Tommy,

I am not defending Classiche or Ferrari of North America. I agree with you that neither organization could provide any of my 308's build information. They could not find my build sheets. They made many mistakes about the correct materials used within my 308. I have the original window sticker for my 308 which I used as a baseline for the certification. The Classiche does not certify the build of the car, it certifies the date in time when it was inspected. Classiche and FNA rely on dealership technicians to make judgement calls, just like FCA judges, some are better than others with their knowledge. In many ways, the Classiche process felt very much like being judged for a preservation award and felt that I had to defend my 308. There were times we argued about things that were in either from carbed or QV models.

I was told that in 1982 when my 308 was built Ferrari S.p.A. was not computerized. As a computer engineer, I accept that as truth. Ferrari has not been able to tell me how many verde medio 308's were made.

The other stated benefit of the Classiche program is if parts are not available for your Ferrari, they will "remanufacturer the part(s) for you. A few years ago, I needed some headliner material and requested some new material to be made. The Factory determined that the material in my 308 was incorrect and it should have QV material. After providing brochures pictures as proof of originality along with their certification, I was asked to send my 308 to Italy for repair at my expense. Luckily I was able to re-glue material in my targa-top and the problem was solved.

The Classiche program is not perfect, it is just one tool of many. If I owned a 250, I would be really pissed with the run-around, I get from Ferrari S.p.A. and acknowledge it part of what I enjoy about owning a Italian sports car.

 

That is really scary.

BTW, I bought one of, if not THE, last roll of your headliner material in 2002. I was told then that what I had was it, no more. Take care of that headliner !

 

Again, I agree with you.

I think I started the Classice process in the Fall of 2006. At that time the cost was $1,500 for cars under 25 years old and $2,500 for older cars. My 308 was gonna turn 25 in about 6 months and I knew the price would go up and up. I was one of the first 5 cars to complete the program in the US. I knew I had to get in early before Ferrari knew what they were doing. I was the test car for all three dealerships. I am a Navy veteran and former air-traffic control technician and I enjoy manipulating large systems. So my strategy was to get in early and learn with them. Everyone (FNA & dealerships) was open to sharing with me what they learned along the way. I was also surprised how much data was not available. I was lucky to have my window sticker. for example, it helped explain that my 308 which was delivered in Pennsylvania came with a California emission system, (judges often think I have an incorrect replacement label) and my 308 entered into the US via Los Angeles.

I had also tried researching my 308 before I entered the Classiche program. I requested my build sheets and wanted to know how many verde medio 308s were made. I was told that that info wasn't available due to lack of computer records back in 1982.

Lastly, when Ferrari introduced the program, in their promotional material they stated there were only two ways to document if a Ferrari was authentic or original (1) through extensive concours judging and (2) going through the Classiche Program. I would argue both process are moving targets because there are so many variations, for example some early injected 308's came with silver steering wheels before the factory changed to black. Ferrari used all the parts in the shop before ending a run and that may or may not have happened at the end of a model. I also judge in the Penn-Jersey region.

I also wonder if all the documentation and trophies I have amassed over the 20 past years would increase the value of my 308 which is now approaching 50,000 miles?
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Hey Big Red,
I know you have plenty of opportunity to replace the part(s) in question or prove they are authentic. I have never heard of anyone failing out but have heard on some who quit, gave up, etc.

 

One of the reasons we see "GTS/B" on the first batch of injected 308's dash instead of GTSi/Bi. Use up the stock on hand.

(BTW, you are correct, the first injected cars had silver spokes instead of black - except those silver spokes were on Nardi wheels. The carbed cars had silver spokes on MOMO wheels, so those first few silver spokes in 80 wasn't actually leftover 79 and earlier wheels. I always assumed after building several with silver wheels, they suddenly realized black spokes matched better with the new black finish on the instrument panel).

 

Good to know, every year I keep beating myself up if I should do it, I can't bring myself to spend that kind of money. It's the money that's the issue. More stories on here of how it isn't worth it to many to do it. In your opinion, would you recommend it ? Would you do it at all over again ? Did you enjoy the process for others like me on the fence to do it ?
Thank you !

 

If the money is turning you off it is probably not worth it. Also if it is some plain jane car it is probably not worth it. We did it with the TR but I have low friends in high places and it didn't cost very much. It is also an all original car and winner of the National Preservation Award with a very well known history for every mile. If and when we sell it I'll be wanting every penny and the red book can't hurt.

 

Big Red,

yes, I would do it again. I learned a lot about my 308, the Classiche process, FNA and Ferrari SpA. It was a good experience, even when I had to advocate for my 308. I felt supported at the dealerships, when I travel with the 308 and it pretty cool having a certified 308 since there aren't many. It was a big conversation starter out in Monterey. What I have not seen yet from Ferrari SpA, is the parts needed to maintain the cars in original condition from the factory.

I would recommend it but say go in with your eyes open which means their goal is to get the car back to original condition at the time of inspection which could be expensive if it is not already there. Like RifleDriver, I took an National Classic Preservation award (2003) winning 308 into the process and I did not have to replace anything. I have won two preservation awards since FCA Annual Meet 2014 and Cavallino Classic 2015. I think to badge has a positive effect on the judges.

 

Speaking for myself and the judges I know well it does not, nor should it.

 

Just to clarify my statement about "positive affect on judges", I believe the Classiche badge is one more indication that the Ferrari in question is well sorted, similarly to a well prepared car shows up better than one is not quite as ready to be judged.