I read this article yesterday. My question was since it is now in the mainstream media, are values now at the top or will this fuel the fire? I'm getting my 79 appraised next week to for insurance valuation.
Hagerty 2015s biggest losers and hottest sales is also in this article Buyer?s market: These 5 collector cars saw the biggest price declines of 2015 | Autoweek Hagertys data shows the BMW 2002 down 33% that is a surprise. A 1975 BMW 2002 was compared against 1976 Turbo TNP 300R and a Lotus Esprit in Octanes 2011 Porsche Classics issue. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
F FWIW my perception is that the market has already softened a bit. Don't expect double digit returns moving forward, enjoy the car.
Very nice photos… I'm puzzled why Porsche did not fit the correct '74/75 manual mirror during restoration. Was there a factory part number for tartan-dress Porsche side script BTW: Ryan's new Carrera 2.7 book has a detailed special model section on this car and even includes a photo of the factory studio design card - amazing detail! A look at the very first Porsche 911 Turbo | Ran When Parked Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Charles, I think we are in the discovery and restoration phase of these early 930's still. Tons upon tons were bastardized, left outside etc and are now being discovered, sold and restored. Those cars will either then be enjoyed or sold at auction in the future. While yes, prices have increased considerable, these early 930's are still very "new" with the usage of the word "collectibility", "classic" and "market perception" in mind. The resurrection phase. It's easy to see the run they made but this is still what I believe to be the second inning. The first being the initial purchase. Now the rediscovery phase. Once a great restored car or a perfect original car makes its way to market and gets some larger collectors realizing and chasing after a single car, things will tick up again and again and again.. feeding upon itself. They are already in the spotlight. The mainstream sees and knows. Now it's just a matter of great cars coming out for sale at auction. A few years ago it wasn't often that early 930's would come to auction and if they did, they weren't focused upon. That's different as of today. I am sure the die hard Ferrari guy is watching out of the corner of his eye. I bet that changes and he begins acting on what he sees. While some Ferrari collectors already have, most haven't. Sure I am bullish. Sure I own these cars but I do think things out and I feel strongly about my logic. We all have opinions like we each have an *********. Everyone talks about a market top hence why there very well may not be one. If you enjoyment period is 5 and better yet 10 years out, I think these cars could possible double and maybe beyond. I think they are still absurdly undervalued here. Anyone who thinks I am just here talking them up is right, I am. That said, I have a 1/4 of my net wealth in early 930's so my mouth is where my belief is and my conviction is strong. Also there is no way in hell my post or belief here is going to do a thing to prices. I share it amongst friends with a similar interest. Ok a different note, watching these cars for over a year, there really are not many exemplary examples that have come to market. When a great one does, mark my words that new highs will be made. I know of a shhit box that sold 2 days ago for $82,500 and it needed color change, fully rebuilt engine and a full interior. No history and the seller didn't know if the numbers matched because of an a/c aftermarket piece was in the way. My guess is that car perfect will be all in at just shy of 200k. Like the article said, Ferrari is expensive. Mercedes is expensive. What's next. It's hard not to make comparisons and one I always think about is the Ferrari Dino. From my perspective, these cars should be equals in terms of price 500k. I don't for the life of me see Ferrari as better. Sometimes I see just the opposite. You don't see a Dino listed on eBay. Time will come when these cars are strictly collector items. It's already on its way. How may 73RS cars get listed on eBay. Or listed on Pelican for sale. They used to but not anymore. Should we compare them, no but you can compare the history. How it happened and what happened and why it happened. Another interesting fact is that as Porsche continues to produce incredible new cars like the 991 GT3RS, it's fuel for these classic, handmade, low production cars. These cars are going into strong hands from weak hands as well. Strong hands don't panic. A lot of people with a weak hand who had a car from before the run-up sold or is selling. We are at a new trough. We need to work the trough off and we need time decay. Just like any equity market, sideways action can work off an overbought condition. There won't necessarily be a correction. We are also in a global economy today so if or when we dip, another country can be on the upswing. Like Japan in the 90's when they chased Ferrari's. If you don't have time and are waiting for more money, then sell but there is no way prices will plumet. It's unlikely that the new owner punts their car if the overall car market does dip anyway. My gut says again that we go sideways and work off the overbought condition and then slowly increase several years from now. With the US Dollar so strong, if or when that does re-set (drops), it will be less expensive for other countries to buy these cars in their currency. That's a positive vs if the US dollar was incredible cheap here (which it is not). My 2 cents for what it's worth. I certainly can be wrong. I don't profess to know any of this with certainty. There even may be some things wrong with my logic or things I have written about. That said, I go wth my gut. I traded equities for Merrill for 15 years and make a fortune for that bank. I watched specific stocks from morning till evening for years and understand a great deal about supply and demand and price movement, momentum, etc. I don't own these cars simply for investment. I love my cars. That said, I want to bake my cake and eat it too and as passionate as I am, hope to be rewarded financially as well. If I am wrong and they go to zero, that's fine too. Disappointing but I am totally and completely fine with it as without risk, there is no reward. Doesn't feel like mug risk when I am behind the wheels of these early 930's.... Merry Christmas.
Yes bravo. Nicely written. I agree with most every syllable but will hesitate to agree with the Dino comparison. The Dino has more romance, an equally fantastic story, more pleasing to the eye & a more elite manufacturer (to many). I give the edge to it in my perspective (says this 1979 930 owner). But even with that I applaud the post.
No question the 3.0 Turbos have a lot going for them and are just coming into their own. If there is one thing I've learned, the Porsche collector market is huge and growing.
Sep 19, 1974 order number and type sheet for the Porsche Turbo released prior to the Paris Salon. Note the type of sale and model designation (Verkaufstyp Und Modellbezeichnung) was Porsche Turbo (vs. 911 Turbo) and Order Type Number (Bestell-Typ-Nr.) - 930.741. Type 930.741 available in the following countries:" "Germany, Holland, France, Italy, Japan LL, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Japan RL, Hong Kong RL, England RL, England LL, Norway, Belgium/Luxembourg, Australia RL, South Africa RL, South Africa LL The LL designation is likely for left-hand drive and RL for right-hand drive and its interesting that Japan is listed for both LHD/RHD (also England and South Africa). Michael Cottons Porsche Turbo book production schedule indicates that no 1975 Turbos were delivered to Japan so perhaps his chart is in error or first export to Japan changed to the 1976 model year after the Paris Salon. Note the standard option list also included the Bamberg cassette radio (option 422) which was also indicated in the early 1975 Turbo brochure (15-19 1061.14, marked Bechtle-Druck, Esslingen). The Bamberg was most likely installed in 1975 Turbos that left the factory in 1974 but later changed to the Köln for cars delivered in 1975. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The Sep 74 Paris Salon press release kits were also released in French but the heavier cardstock specification sheets it the kit were multi-language - German, English and French (same as the 74 German language Paris Salon press release that I have). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
the new batch of 991.2 3.0 turbo coming, with 30 plus years of chassis / suspension evolution, should stack up well or better against the 930 from a strict performance point of view, except for the nostalgia which is irreplaceable and priceless, the market may only shake out the weaker survivors
of course not... the 991.2 is not available yet... that market does not exist, there is nothing to compete with
The point is someone looking to acquire an early 3.0 Turbo is likely not considering it versus the latest car to hit the dealer floor.
Different cars, different eras, different logics. I can buy both, but for completely different reasons. Comparing them is pointless.
the comment was not a comparison, it was a market opinion that the 930 should hold its' own in spite of the potential consideration that a new 3.0 turbo could bring...
No disrespect, but I disagree: The point to make here, in the discussion on whether the first turbo has peaked or not (something I have heard a lot recently) is to note that now it really is the most relevant car for the future of the 911 - same displacement, turbo charged. So I guess the argument can be made that the early 3.0 Turbo is the grandfather of what is to come from here on out in Porsche 911's as a whole...
All of Fabspeed agrees, the 930 is our favorite Porsche (sorry GT4). We love taking ours out for a casual spin. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Your "Market opinion" doesn't make much sense When you said "the 930 should hold its' own in spite of the potential consideration that a new 3.0 turbo could bring." It is as though you are suggesting that people who were shopping for 930 Turbos, are going to rethink their choice and possibly choose a 991.2 3.0 turbo, rather than a 930. The 930 market is not going to be impacted by the new 991.2 3.0 turbo at all. The 991.2 3.0 turbo is basically a mass produced, larger, tamer, GT car, that will predominantly arrive at dealerships with automatic transmissions, modern amenities, and weight significantly more. A perfect daily driver for many people. Someone in the market for a 930 Turbo, particularly an early one, is looking for a pure, raw, driving experience, along with all the pros and cons of a roughly 40 year old high performance car. For most its not going to be a daily driver. So, the 930 Turbo Market whether it goes up, down, or stays the same isn't going to be impacted by consideration of the 991.2 3.0 Turbos. The markets and generally the consumers for each are very different.
when anything is added to any market place, it creates choices, which you have demonstrated by your opining...
Adding things to the market place adds choices, but so what. Using your logic one could say, the 930's market will remain strong in spite of Nike's newest Airmax running shoes. But really, was someone who had been searching for a 930 suddenly going to decide to not buy it because the best new sneakers came out or because a modern everyday driver is available. Its a different market. The vintage car market isn't affected by the release of mass produced modern cars.
the thing about vintage cars is that they don't make them any more, every one that would like to have a vintage car cannot always have one...
