Turbocharging my F355 - Or how to remove any market value from your F355 remaining. | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Turbocharging my F355 - Or how to remove any market value from your F355 remaining.

Discussion in '348/355' started by Markphd, Oct 23, 2015.

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  1. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    It's going well, but I am waiting for the heads. You may not know this, but I had major surgery in mid October and was on convalescence leave for 30 days and was no really in much shape to work on my car for the past two months. My jaw was finally unwired after 8 weeks. So, I have had a rough few months.


    BTW it's only December 2015.


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  2. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    Today I am considering two different water pumps to replace the factory pump.

    So why replace the stock water pump, even though there are criticisms for fixing something that's not really broke (it isn't a horrible unit). Well I can think of a few reasons, number one on the list is the roughly 10 HP it would likely free up at the RPM peak. Free horsepower. It also happens to increase fuel economy 3-5%. It also reduces emissions, who said I didn't care about the environment, and reduces the time needed for the engine to warm up properly.

    decisions, decisions, decisions...
    The two contenders: Davies Craig EWP-150 and the Pierburg CWA200 both of which have their advantages.

    The CWA200 has the electronics needed built in to be controlled with PWM control signals provided by the Megasquirt 3 ECU without any additional circuitry. Where the Davies Craig would require some additional circuitry to make it PWM friendly. Which are the advantages enjoyed by the CWA200 pump. The CWA200 pumps about 115 liters/minute (30 gal/min).

    By contrast the EWP-150 pumps more, about 150 liters/minute (40 gal/min), weighs about 1/2 the CWA200 pump at 2 lbs, draws slightly less amperage at full load, and is threaded to attach AN fittings or traditional radiator hoses directly onto the unit. All of which favor the EWP-150.

    Form factor is the only remaining issue, as one may fit better than the other, but either way I've decided to go with an electric water pump. It will be interesting to see how each pump lends itself to being installed. I won't really have an answer to that until I have both pumps in hand.

    That's today's update.

    If anyone has any suggestions on circuits to provide PWM power and to prevent flyback from the inductive load from the motor or to minimize any RF noise generation, I am all ears. I do not know if the Davies Craig has circuitry to prevent flyback (which would make my life easier).
     
  3. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    Work is now beginning to pick up some speed, I am still waiting for the heads to return, however, I did get started on some of the electronics. I am building a test bench for the parts so that I can get them all talking and reading sensors. I have decided to make use of the CAN-BUS in a far more elaborate way than I envisioned, actually, I had not envisioned using it at all initially.

    So communication on the network will include the Megasquirt as the master, 8 channel EGT, dual wide band O2, and the IQ3s digital dash. I am considering also using a CAN enabled power distribution system.

    I have settled on controlling the water pump with a solid state relay and a diode for controlling any flyback voltage to the relay. I will be using the EWP 150 from Davies Craig, and came up with a great way to integrate it into the existing system, which will allow me to retain much of the factory configuration for compatibility purposes. I will be able to ditch the thermostat completely and should have greater overall control of the water and oil temperatures.

    Attached is the template for the new dash. The old leather needs replacement, so it has been removed and I will get it re-covered so that it looks good again.

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    Old dash disassembled

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    New dash template

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    Solid state relay and diode 25amp 120vdc rated

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    Heat sink for solid state relay

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  4. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    Cool deal. I use those SS relays all the time on PLC's. They are work horses
    Hmmm PLC to control temps would be interesting if you split the motor side to side from that wonky head feed, nahh too much to be stupid with. May work for something
     
  5. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    I could actually do that, I have two different pumps.

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    But for now, work continues on the dash.

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  6. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Love the symmetrical layout.
    Did you consider stacking the 02 and EGT so you only have 2 glances at the dash instead of 3 like a "real" LOL race car or we going for that Cadillac look :)

    Couple things I would add are a switch to tuen off the 02 and EGT so you wont be distracted while driving. Maybe on top of the dash some sequential RPM lights so you dont have to look down.

    Observations from old eye's :)
     
  7. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    I did consider stacking them, but I was going for style points. I can dim the O2 and EGT, but the displays won't totally shut off.

    I could shut the aerospace logic gauge off, but the wideband O2 is feeding data to the Megasquirt.

    It would be easy enough to make covers for both. The racepak has sequential F1 style lights.


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    More to come as the paint dries.

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  8. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3
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    Jul 7, 2015
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    Sarasota, Florida
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    OC

    Good god I hope you brought that in, AFTER painting it??
     
  9. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    Yes, I wanted to keep it from getting dirty. I am going to go with a flatter black on the gauge shroud, but I am going to get it covered in leather anyway. Fact is that leather will eventually shrink again and by making it black underneath will just hide any imperfections.

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  10. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    And now the haters can start commenting on how this is never going to work, how it looks like ****, and how much better the factory gauges are. It's not completely done... But close enough to give everyone an idea where I am going with the dash.

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  11. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Style points LOL I here you

    Needs some lights on it

    Is that the biggest dash they make? For some reason it looked bigger on their display at PIR
     
  12. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    The IQ3s only comes in one size... But they do have other marginally larger dashes. I think that it is going to work out nicely. I don't know if I would want it any larger. I also have a Bluetooth digital output which will provide information to my android tablet, so I will be able to pull up additional information / data should I need it. I am thinking about permanently mounting an android tablet in the car.

    I toyed with using the Android as a digital dash instead of using the IQ3s.


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  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    I use a samsung tablet in my duramax, love it as you can open a gps screen if needed
    Definatly the way to go

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  14. FLORIDAsnakeEyes

    FLORIDAsnakeEyes Formula 3
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    Jul 7, 2015
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    Looks very cool. There are those who mod there Ferrari's and those who don't.

    I can't wait to see all this when it's done.
     
  15. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    I really went back and forth between modding the dash and leaving it stock. There was really nothing wrong or really disagreeable with how Ferrari executed it. Everything was exactly how you would have expected it to be. However, current technology provides capabilities and features that simply were not possible, available, or practical in 1997.

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  16. e21jason

    e21jason Karting

    Jul 27, 2015
    69
    Dubai
    Full Name:
    Jason
    I have wired a coupe of race trucks using the MOTEC PDM, the can bus really cuts down on wiring and adds extra functionally. Th only issue is the can address are limited so you need to know what ever you connecting it to can communicate.

    The smart wire looks a similar product and i guess you should be able to use the dash as a can gateway for whatever sensors you hook up to it.
     
  17. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    The smartwire is cool, but way overpriced IMHO at nearly $2000. I found a slightly less capable unit from Eaton for OEM applications that can be had for about $250 and is CAN enabled for up to 12 circuits. Granted, the smartwire has much greater capacity, but not 8 times the capacity of the Eaton unit. Although, I am not opposed to spending money on the right gear, the smartwire isn't a good value for what I am doing, for other applications it might be.

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  18. e21jason

    e21jason Karting

    Jul 27, 2015
    69
    Dubai
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    Jason
    Interesting stuff on the Eaton not come across that only worked with the motec which is twice the price of the smartwire

    Any links to the spec on the eaton stuff
     
  19. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #144 Markphd, Dec 27, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    Yes.

    http://www.connectorconcepts.com/muveelcemwi1.html

    Spec sheet is available on that page as well. I just ordered the unit today and it was $312 shipped with the connector kit as qty 1 order. It actually seems like a pretty cool way to control a number of things and reduce wiring from the ECU to the engine bay for things like fans, fuel pump, ignition power, etc.

    Both the dash and the Megasquirt could act as gateways to the CAN bus.


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  20. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    #145 Markphd, Dec 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So as far as the CAN bus, I am pretty sure that this is the configuration that I am going with.

    Megasquirt and IQ3s:

    Input:
    Fault Detection (e.g. low oil pressure)
    Road speed

    Output:
    RPM
    Road Speed
    EGT Temp Warning Light
    Overboost Warning Light
    Boost Pressure
    Other engine parameters for display, as needed

    Megasquirt and 12 Channel Power Distrubution I/O

    1. Fuel Pump Relay switch and status
    2. Ignition System Relay switch and status
    3. Primary Cooling Fan Relay switch and status
    4. Secondary Cooling Fan Relay switch and status
    5. Innovate WBO2 Relay switch and status
    6. Intercooler Fan Relay switch and status
    7. Dash Relay switch and status

    Megasquirt and 8 channel EGT

    Cylinder 1-8 EGT temp for Megasquirt

    Megasquirt and Innovate Dual WBO2

    Bank 1 and 2 WBO2 sensor readings

    I think this covers what will be on the CAN bus network and where it will be used for the most part. Subject to change. It does save quite a bit of crazy wiring.
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  21. Markphd

    Markphd Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    713
    I feel a little dumb, I thought the Innovate WB O2 used CAN.

    Well apparently the Innovate WBO2 does not use a CAN interface, but a proprietary RS-232 serial bus protocol. So it won't be directly on the CAN bus (which is both good and bad)... another few cables coming out of the dash to the 8 channel EGT CAN interface, apparently my 8 channel EGT will take the WB O2 data from the innovate WBO2 sensors and put that onto the CAN bus for me. Unfortunately, the 8 channel EGT and the WB O2 are not exactly side by side in my car (which would reduce the wiring somewhat and simplify the grounding so that there is no grounding offset. One of the problems that I am concerned about is getting noise either across the bus or across the sensors, this is one of those things that can end up causing you to have a bad day.

    Although, that means only the ECU, power distribution, 8 Channel EGT unit, and dash will be on the CAN network which reduces the likelihood that the bus will be stressed to any great extent. Another downside of actually having the WB O2 as a separate gauge is that I had to ditch the 8 ft WB O2 wires in favor of 18 foot wires (an extra $170 I didn't really want to spend) but do it right, do it once, and cry once about the cost.

    I really labored over connectors recently. Deciding between metripack GT 150 and Deutch DTM series connectors was tough. I like the DTM connectors better, but the GT 150 are perfectly adequate as well. In the end, I decided to go with the GT 150 connectors because I found complete kits for $60 each that included (1) 10 connector (2) 8 connector (2) 5 connector (2) 4 connector (2) 3 connector and (2) 2 connector - both male and female with all pins and seals for only $60, so I ordered two sets for this project. Deutch DTM connectors were about 4x the cost, and not really warranted plus I already had the right crimp tool for the Delphi connectors.
     
  22. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Can you program in an engine off cool down cycle?

    Like run the water pump and fan for say 30-45 seconds to stabilize the engine and or turbo temps. We used to do that and include the sump spinning also. Really worked well
     
  23. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
    6,777
    Lake Villa IL
    Why bother though, it's only getting cooler after shutdown :D
     
  24. e21jason

    e21jason Karting

    Jul 27, 2015
    69
    Dubai
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    Jason
    On turbo engines, a lot of people its good to cool the turbo's (water cooled) after the engine stops so heat soak from the turbo does not burn the oil.
     
  25. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
    6,777
    Lake Villa IL
    Sure, it's not uncommon to say a water cooled turbo does better with oil coking as the chra can maintain temps better, but is it common to circulate water after the engine is not running? No. Not saying it's a bad thing! Just don't think it really helps much.
     

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